002 - Purpose, Faith, and Love
When something major happens – death of a loved one, loss of a career, identity crisis, or other significant worldview shift – how do we figure out how to just “be” again?
On my journey, I’m realizing that to find that purpose, we have to peel back a lot of layers – the societal norms, cultural expectations, family pressures; the fears, doubts, confidence-shaking beliefs.
We have to learn to turn down the outside voices and listen for that small, still voice within each of us that's been saying, "I've got you. Just listen."
For this episode, I wanted to tag in two marvelous colleagues, coaches and friends, inspirations, Billy Ward and Tambre Leighn. Both of these beautiful souls have devoted themselves to the hard work of Being True to Your Self/Your Soul.
As we talked about purpose (which I have a strong feeling we'll be returning to often on this show), we also talked about humility, faith, peace, frustration, ego, and much more.
I hope you'll walk with us for this one.
In This Episode
(01:52) Overcoming my conditioned purpose
(07:29) Tambre’s great loss and how she was thrust into a different journey
(09:52) Billy recounts the process of claiming his own strength
(13:41) Navigating life without “true north”
(20:44) The sacred emotion of pain
(23:45) Tambre finds a thread of light within the darkness
(27:12) What will make your life feel worthwhile, even if just for today?
(32:18) Ritualizing what you value
(38:35) The importance of staying in touch with your physical body
(49:30) How do we connect with our true purpose?
(58:47) The journey of reinvention
Notable Quotes
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“After Gary passed, I realized for the first time he wasn't walking back through the door and I was sitting in broad daylight in the house, on our couch and everything literally went black. I could not see a thing. And I panicked and was like, what is this? What is this blackness? What is this nothingness? Is this all there is? And there was some little spark in me that said, There has to be some pinprick of light here somewhere. If you find it, it will be the thread that leads you back. And I did finally, you know, see a little bit of light, you know, came through that, but where that thread led was into six years of absolute utter darkness. I suffered from grief related depression. This journey was not easy. I only continued on it because I got up every morning and I was breathing for a while. You know, it took a lot to come out of it. And I did.”
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“All my life, I had tried to pretend that I had all my sh*t together and what I found in the void and the darkness was that in my brokenness and in sharing my brokenness and admitting that I was broken, I felt more whole and more free. And I was like, this is actually kind of a funny dance. I'm telling people that I'm a f*cking mess…and I feel better about where I'm at. And people seem to be sharing from the bottom and the depths of their heart too. And so it was kind of like a funny thing was happening even though I was feeling so low, I was starting to connect in a really meaningful way.”
Our Guests
Certified professional coach Tambre Leighn is the founder of Well Beyond Ordinary, a consulting company that helps healthcare clients use coaching skills to improve communication, patient engagement, and build trust. Tambre’s work integrating coaching into patient support was inspired by her experience as a caregiver for her late husband.
Billy Ward is a motivational speaker, mental health advocate, life coach and former professional football player. His podcast, The Billy Ward Podcast, aims to help people live with greater awareness so that they can experience more peace, freedom, joy and love.
Resources & Links
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Luke (00:00:01):
Welcome to On This Walk, a show about the winding journey of life in all its realness. I'm Luke Iorio. Please join me and my brilliant heart centered guests each week, as we look to navigate this journey more consciously and authentically. Uncovering how to tap back into that sense of connection with self, with soul and with something bigger than ourselves. Now let's go on this walk.
Welcome, welcome, welcome. And thank you for joining me on this walk. I'm your host, Luke Iorio. And today, we're gonna be walking with purpose. And as a part of this walk with purpose, we're gonna connect a bit with reinvention, with love of self, faith, and wrestling with that big old question of who am I in my walk with purpose. Took a bit of a sideways turn, as I shared on our first episode, I had hit a stage of burnout and realized just how far I had ventured away from my true self.
And I wanna share a bit more about what came next today, because that moment led me to putting in motion, the fact that I would move away from, move further on from, everything that I'd actually been working for at that stage of my life. And I had this image of success in my mind, I'm entrepreneurial and being in business was about creating freedom. And for me, ideally about making a difference as well. And there I was, I had become a CEO at the age of 32 of an extremely highly regarded institute that was having an impact on people's lives all the way around the globe. And yet just five or six years later, I was cooked. I was completely burnt out. I thought I had everything that I wanted. I had achieved exactly what it was that I had set out to do, but I wasn't happy.
I was stressed, I was agitated. Certainly if you ask my wife, I was irritable as well. I felt boxed in, and in that process, I had then have that mirror moment that I had shared, and I realized just how much things have got to change. I forgot exactly where, I forget exactly whether it was about 18 months or so later. I had passed the reigns over to one of my other business partners to now be the CEO of iPEC, she's actually the current CEO of iPEC right now. And I remember that day of announcing everything and the official transition. And I was just overjoyed at her taking the reins. I felt free and that this moment was freeing because I felt like I was now free to move on to whatever was meant to come next for me. And then that next morning, I remember waking up and thinking to myself, holy hell, what did you just do?
Everything that I'd worked for, everything that I had spent my adult life focused on, and even earlier than that, that I thought I had achieved it, I thought that this is what I was going for, and I just handed it off. I just said, no, this is no longer for me. And when I came to that realization, like after the day was done and the transition was put in place, I recognized this emptiness because I felt like I was now purposeless. That purpose was gone, it was just no longer there for me. And so for a brief while, I even, you know, reflected back and I'm like, well, maybe it's that I had achieved my purpose. Maybe this is what I was set out to do. This is what I was meant to accomplish and bring into the world, was this part that I had played thus far.
And then you start to think of, you know, my God, am I done? Like, is this it? Do I have to go out and find a whole new purpose? And I thought I was done with that search. I thought I was done with asking those questions and coming up with the big answers, I thought those were already answered and reflected and, and, and done with my life. I didn't think I was gonna have to redo all of that work. And as I now can reflect back, 'cause I've got a different perspective on what was occurring, I realized that I had achieved my purpose, but not the one that I thought. I had achieved the purpose that was set out by my conditioning, the one that was created by society, the one that was expected, the one that I thought I really truly wanted and needed, I called this my conditioned purpose.
And without this conditioning, without this stated purpose, it was, that was my way of orienting and relating to the world. And without all of those things, well then, who am I? And how am I going to feel that meaning and purpose again in my life if I can't answer that question? And that's what brings us to today's conversation to talk about this journey with purpose, how it changes and evolves, where does purpose arise from? What does it ask of us? What's required to walk with, to dance with purpose and what happens if we thought we had it all figured out, but then it's just gone? Or we come to that realization that this isn't it. And we've gotta make all of these changes. We've gotta move in all of these different directions. Well, that conversation is why I needed to reach out to two wonderful walking partners for today's conversation.
And with that in mind, I am so very, very pleased to be joined today on this walk with purpose with Tambre Leighn and Billy Ward. Now I could, and I asked them to, to come on and join me now. And I could give you their proper bios. I could read those out to you guys at this time, but here's what I really want you to know about Tambre and Billy. First, Tamra. It's that she has faced incredible adversity within her life. She was widowed young and was faced with that choice that she could either crumble into the pain and the morning of that, or she could recreate. And I'm gonna go out on limb and say, you've guessed that she recreated and she did so in extraordinary fashion. And the piece that I, I wanted to have her on this walk today, to be able to share with you is because she did that.
She rose she recreated, but she did so with brilliant vulnerability and authenticity, with bravery, as well as rawness within that journey, she didn't hide from it. You could say she quite literally danced with it. And now she brings that energy to her clients, to her advocacy, to all of the ways that she gives her gifts to the world. And for Billy, he is truly, he's a soul brother, he's about as authentic and as open as it gets within this life. And he does that, in my opinion, I think it's pretty consistent with his, but he does that because he prioritized his relationship with himself. It was not always that way for Billy, I'll let him share any of those pieces himself, but he prioritized love, being love, and being loved, giving yourself permission to accept love from others, including from yourself. And he does this throughout his life and he brings those waves of calming love to the young men and students that he mentors, to his clients, and most definitely, to his sons. And so with that, Tambre and Billy, thank you so much guys for going on this walk with me.
Billy (00:07:09):
Thanks for having us, Luke.
Tambre (00:07:09):
Yeah, thanks Luke.
Luke (00:07:11):
Welcome. Tambre, maybe if you could begin here, you know, I almost wanna just kind add where do you wanna jump in? Where do you wanna start? But I guess, you know, certainly as part of that jumping in, if, if you could give everyone just that little bit of your journey and picking up with kind of where things were with your husband and what that started to bring about.
Tambre (00:07:29):
Sure. So I think the kind of awakening moment of my journey actually was when I was somewhere between seven and nine and I just had this epiphany walking along one day, I stopped in the street, walking home from school and I don't know where the thought came from, but what I thought was whatever this is, whatever this life thing is, please don't let it be ordinary. And that guided every choice that I made going forward. And through that, I had the opportunity to have an extraordinary career in the film industry. And through that, I met my late husband, Gary Wissner, who was a production designer. And, you know, we had a great relationship, not a perfect relationship where you know, we were human, we had our flaws, we had our moments, we had a lot to learn and we learned a lot from each other.
And we were at that point of, we had just designed a rebuild at the house that, you know, he had put together and we were trying to start a family and he was diagnosed with Hodgkin's Disease. So I spent three years as his caregiver at the same time, I was his, our department coordinator and his best friend. And so when he died, there literally was nothing left. The house didn't get built, the baby didn't happen and the husband was gone, and so was my career. And so that really was the end, and yet also the beginning.
Luke (00:08:49):
Yeah. I think it's one of, one of those things that I reflected on. And I think you just so more poignantly described this, is that when we recognize there's a change, a shift in direction within our life, planned or most certainly not planned, all of a sudden, the future that was attached to that path disappears. There's so many different types of loss that occur when these unexpected transitions encounter our path. And that's also part of like, I thought I had it figured out, I thought it was this direction. I thought I could see the next 20, 30, 40 years. And then all of a sudden it's just not there and it can leave you, right?
Tambre (00:09:27):
Yeah. Like you said, who, you know, who am I? Who am I now that I'm not a wife? Who am I now that I'm not a caregiver? Who am I now that I'm not doing the work that I was doing? Leaves a really big blank slate.
Luke (00:09:37):
Yeah. Billy, let me, let me bring you in here because what, you know, I'd, I'd love for you to, to jump in also with just a little bit of that perspective. Obviously go wherever you'd like to go, but I do also want you to share a little bit of your own journey in this process, just to give people a little bit of sense of that perspective. Start wherever you want though.
Billy (00:09:52):
Yeah. If, if you don't mind, Luke, uh, I'm just gonna jump in. Tambre, you are extraordinary. My heart is so moved and, and touched by just the very little of your story that, that you've shared. And I'm really glad that I'm just hearing it for the first time. Yesterday was my dad's year anniversary to his Ascension. I spent the day in prayer doing yoga, went to the Manasquan Inlet where my siblings and I left his ashes, I played my singing bowl. I went to see a spiritual advisor, just spent, it was just a really emotional day. And you, and your story, you bring that up immediately for me. And similar to the relationship you had with your, your husband. My relationship with my dad was just a beautiful thing. And it was, there were certainly some, some up and down periods throughout my life, but those last 10 years were just nothing but love.
And he was the guy that I leaned into, especially in the last two or three years. And so for me, acknowledging that that piece is missing physically has been a real trial and challenge for me. And so I thank you for your, your witness, but I, I also thank you for your strength because I'm, I'm in the process of just also trying to claim my strength. And I feel just intuitively, so much strength from, from you and super grateful that Luke invited me, but Luke invited me with you. So, so thank you for showing up in the way that you have. Luke, I, I know I'm, long-winded, I'm so psyched that you're doing what you're doing. When you told me about your're decision to leave iPEC, I found for me and our relationship, you became so much more accessible for me. And like, anytime you invite me anywhere, I'm coming. But you also inspire me because I think especially, sometimes us guys are, are dealing with this pressure of what society tells us that what success looks like, and they're all, almost dropped an F bomb here, they're all lies. They're just lies.
And really quickly, me and, and, uh, some of my story, a little over three years ago, I made the biggest decision of my life to create something new for my family. In other words, uh, get divorced. I'm still moving through that process. But similar to Tambre, I, I really identified myself first and foremost as a family man, that everything that I did, everything was funneled through this idea that I was a family man. And I spent a lot of time just coming to terms with this idea that I was just stripping away at things that I was attached to and what that did, and I'm sure it's similar, and Tambre's journey, it created a space for me to be able to really look at my relationship with myself without some of those attachments. And that space really lent itself to a lot of healing, a lot of learning, a lot of intention setting and a lot of planning about how am I gonna integrate those ideas and put 'em into action.
Luke (00:12:34):
Both of you brought this up, obviously it was, it was part of my story as well, is that when we start to go through these different transitions, one that while it may not have been what you originally wanted to choose, but something ultimately you did choose in terms of a path, the ability, obviously something you most definitely did not choose Tambre, is that when we go through these processes, how much of our identity has been wrapped up in the way that we were orienting towards life? And, you know, Tambre, I mean, I could feel it when you said, you know, well, everything was defined. I was the wife, I was the caregiver, I was this, I was that. And you know, for me, it was, I was the entrepreneur, I was the CEO, I was the coach, I was the, this, I was the, that. And I'm just kind of curious, like what's a little bit of, I wanna invite people actually into the void of that for a moment, because meaning that we could talk about like, okay, well, here's what we then did, we'll get to that. What can you share about your experience of being in that void, meaning without the identifiers, without being able to rely on the same attachments that you previously had, what can you share about that period of time?
Tambre (00:13:41):
For me, it actually, there was a crystallizing moment, probably a year, three months or so after Gary passed where I realized for the first time he wasn't walking back through the door and I was sitting in broad daylight in the house, on our couch and everything literally went black, could not see a thing. And I panicked and like, what is this? What is this blackness? What is this nothingness? Is this all there is? And there was some little spark in me that said there has to be some pinprick of light here somewhere. If you find it, it will be the thread that leads you back. And I did finally, you know, see a little bit of, of light, you know, came through that, but where that thread led was into six years of absolute utter darkness. I suffered from grief related depression. This journey was, was not easy. I only continued on it because I got up every morning and I was breathing for a while.
And so for me, the experience was messy, wet, screaming, crying on the floor times and head covered with blankets for hours and hours on, on end. You know, it took a lot to, to come out of it, and I did. And I think with, you know, with things like having a grief recovery coach and, and tools that I didn't have access to at the time, the journey doesn't have to be six years, mine was six years. It can be shorter, it can be different, but it was black and dark.
Luke (00:15:10):
Thank you for sharing it that way 'cause it, it, I know for different periods of my life and I've, I've, I've done different, there've been different stages, different narrations to this. But just going to, to the, what I was sharing is that I stepped out of what I thought was everything I ever wanted. And then all of a sudden realizing that I don't have a way of orienting anymore. And I've always been somebody who's had that true north. I had that vision, I had that goal, I had something right that, that could, I could point to and say, I can get through this because of that, right? 'Cause I'm going there, I know this is worth it type of thing. Well, take away that north, that true north, that star, and it's just this emptiness that seems to be there. And I, you, you said it, you know, is this all there is? I remember asking that question on a frequent basis of like, you know, was that it? Like, that was it? That's it? And just feeling the weight and the darkness of that and asking some very, very existential type questions around what's the meaning in this? What's, what is the purpose of this? If, if this is the experience that we're in right now. I wanna share more on that, but Billy I'd love for your, your reflection on this.
Billy (00:16:16):
Yeah. I also, Tambre, I just, I loved how you described finding the, the thread of light and that being the thing that could potentially pull you through. I thought that was just so beautifully said. For me, the void was dark as hell and I, I took a deep dive into the darkness. Walking into the woods late at night by myself, challenging myself, to scare myself, asking those existential questions under the moonlight, in the middle of the woods. Lot of depression, lot of sadness, lot of emotions. I think for me, the, uh, not so much the turning point, but all my life, I had tried to pretend that I had all my shit together and what I found in the void and the darkness was that in my brokenness and in sharing my brokenness and admitting that I was broken, I felt more whole and more free. And I was like, this is actually kind of a funny dance. I'm telling people that I'm a fucking mess, dropped my F bomb. And I feel better about where I'm at and people seem to be sharing from the bottom and the depths of their heart too. And so it was a kind of like a funny thing was happening as even though I was feeling like so low, I was starting to connect in a really meaningful way.
Luke (00:17:28):
Yeah. So two things that you brought up there, right? Which, which hit deeply with me is the, the image that everything is fine. I've got my stuff together, right? I got my shit together. And I wore that for 37 years or whatever it was, because it was always this, you know, I didn't wanna admit to myself, so I sure, certainly wasn't gonna admit to others that, you know, I wasn't as calm, cool and collected as I looked on the outside. And so then all of a sudden it's like, now I've gotta keep up with that role. I've gotta keep that up, right? So I've gotta maintain that. And then you finally get to that part where it's like, you can't hold the waters back anymore. The dam has gotta break and you finally take that little step into the ring and you say, I'm gonna let this be seen. And, and in the safest, smallest way possible, perhaps, unless it just breaks like a dam.
Billy (00:18:17):
It broke.
Luke (00:18:17):
It broke. Yeah. And all of a sudden you let it be seen and you get a completely different response, than you think you're gonna get, and it's one of the reasons why I wanted to get into this conversation, these conversations. There is so much of this going on for everybody if we would just talk about it. All of a sudden, it gets different.
Billy (00:18:38):
It's almost like, Luke, we're like hiding to protect ourselves. And I, I might add that you, you, every time I spent with you before you left iPEC, I, every time I left you, I was like, man, that guy really has his shit together. Like, I'm like, but it's ironic. Once we start to, to admit like, I don't, and it's, it almost becomes easier and more freeing.
Luke (00:18:59):
Yeah. Completely.
Tambre (00:19:00):
I think what we, what we also have the opportunity for is to stop putting expectations on ourselves and on others. You know, I remember three weeks out after losing Gary, getting the question, like, how are you? And then there's this look on the face of like, I want you to just say, you're okay. You know, and I'm not okay. And yet there, when you, when that happens, there's like the permission to be honest and authentic about what's going on for you, are you kidding? My life just blew up. But you know, there's not space for that with a lot of people. And you do find out of course, who, who will create that space for you and where you can safely speak what's authentically going on, but it's not, it's not a big group. Yeah. And some of it comes from fear and some of it comes from people wanting you to be okay because they care about you. And that's the only way they know how to do it. But if we can start to release that expectation that somebody needs to be okay. Why isn't, why isn't it okay to just not be okay for a bit, and allow for that?
Luke (00:19:57):
That's actually, it's ironic, you remind me of a, this beautiful book by Megan Devine, It's Okay To Not Be Okay. And she actually is a grief, uh, grief coach. And she does extraordinary work and extraordinary work. And it is, right? It says at times, we want others to be okay. Yes, because we want them to be okay. But honestly, them not being okay, reminds us that we wouldn't get through this. We would be totally broken by the same thing, we don't admit that to ourselves. And so we, we hide from that and it's like, no, no, no, everybody put on a brave face, everybody say it's gonna be okay. And yet what we need is more of those conversations to be able to acknowledge the truth of what's going on for us at any given time. And I, if I just allude back for a second to this void that I brought up, I would love for our society to get comfortable being uncomfortable again.
And to recognize that discomfort, pain is not a bad thing. I'm not talking about suffering, that's a slightly different part of this conversation. But pain itself is a sacred emotion. To be in that void is actually a sacred time because it's like, that's the chance for you to re-enter the darkness, to be remade and define to that thread of light. But we can't remake ourselves unless, you know, we don't, remaking yourself doesn't happen in just the snap of a finger, right? You've gotta go through the process and to go through the process, it means there's part of us that have to shed, that have to be let go of that have to be lost, that have to die. We have to release those things. And that's a deconstructing process, it's a destabilizing processes, which is what's so terrifying. And yet the new thing can't be born. The new thing can't enter if we make no space.
Billy (00:21:33):
I find it interesting when we are in the void and life is gonna push us into the void more often than maybe we want to go there, but I never find myself, and maybe more as I get older, but I never find myself in the void or the darkness saying, wonder what good's gonna come of this. You know, wonder what, wonder what I'm gonna create after I move through this painful moment. And I recognize that pain is one of my greatest teachers, but it's an interesting, I've always, an interesting question that I've had in those moments, knowing, and, and being aware that something decent is probably gonna come out of this pain, but in the moment of it giving myself, now, as I'm speaking, giving myself the space to feel it and to express it.
Luke (00:22:12):
Absolutely. And I think that's, that's the thing is that for those, those spaces and time that we go through where there is deconstructing and reconstructing that maybe going on, we need to surrender to it. And our propensity is to try to cling to what was, and what was, was either the past or what was, was the future that's not gonna happen anymore. And we try to grasp, we try to hold on, we try to force our way back there. And it actually slows the change process, it slows that metamorphosis down, as opposed to finding that way of surrendering. Now, again, to be very clear, cause I really appreciate the way Billy, you just brought this up. To be clear, this is so much easier to talk about now as opposed to when we're going through it, just to be really clear, right? It's brutal when you're going through it because you can't necessarily see that. And at the same time, when we do go through this, our way of relating to ourselves, not just the reminders we can give ourselves, but this ability to sit in the middle of the storm and recognize these different voices, these different parts of self that begin to arise are just part of that process of coming and going of constructing and deconstructing and reconstructing and not get lost in the storm, not get lost in all of that noise.
Billy (00:23:28):
You know, Luke, if I could just jump in again, you remind me of this pattern, right? That Jesus spoke about, especially during this time we're recording right after Easter and this idea that maybe the end of life of Jesus' life just didn't speak to what happens when we die. But this idea of life, death and resurrection is also a pattern for living.
Luke (00:23:45):
Yeah, it absolutely is. It's part of the natural cycle. And I guess, Tambre, I wanna come to you in a moment to ask about that thread of light that you were able to start pulling on, but to further emphasize, Billy, what you just brought up is to recognize these natural cycles. All of life has this period of birth, death, resurrection, and it's natural. And there are so many natural laws that we can be learning from. It's, you know, on this walk, it's why I'm out in nature all the time, is to remind myself of the way that this all works, because there are patterns, there are processes that are occurring for us and are helping us. If we would just let the, anyhow, I wanna come back. I wanna step back again for a moment, 'cause Tambre, I wanna come back to that thread of light and you pulling on that. I'm curious what that thread was for you and then what it led to like maybe what were some of the other threads that started to appear as you started pulling on that?
Tambre (00:24:35):
There was a question that I started to ask about that thread, which is what matters to me? If everything that mattered to me in the past is gone, what matters to me now? And the one thing that came up was I wanna help people, that's all. If I have more breaths of oxygen that I get to take on this planet, that Gary didn't get to take, what good can I do with that? You know, and, and for a while, I actually had to deal with some guilt and shame about the time that I'd spent grieving because you know, kind of my wake up call one day was like, well, if he'd been given another day or another week, would he have wasted it? Cause it felt wasted. And I know now in hindsight that it was not wasted, it was part of my process and because of what I went through, I'm better able to help others in the work that I do, but I did have to work through those, those feelings.
And when I got to that, that answer, then the next piece was, well, I don't know what that's gonna look like. And eventually found my way to iPEC and got trained. I started writing, actually my memoir and a friend of mine said, you know, hey, there's this course and sure, telling your story about recreating your life after losing Gary can help a lot of people, but I think if you had some training that, you know, and of course I'd been coached all my life as an athlete, so it, the minute she said it, the light bulb went off. I was like, well, yeah, of course, why wouldn't I be a coach? And of course, going through the training and, and meeting you and, and all of these things just opened up, you know, so much more, but I now had purpose, you know, by answering that question, I just wanna help people.
And that's what I ask every day, actually two questions because after a while I was able to include myself in this. And I really admire Billy, the way that, you know, Luke has talked about, you know, your ability to love yourself and, and really look at and understand yourself and, and things like that. And so for a long time, I just put others first. And so I was able to find a way to help others. But the other question was, what's gonna make my life worth, worthwhile? Like how do I get back to that person who looked for an extraordinary moment in every day and looked for extraordinary experiences and went out after those things? And so each day is about how am I helping others? And what's one thing that I'm doing today that helps me feel like I'm leading that extraordinary life? And that really, those are my guideposts, those are my guardrails. And then I bring that in with my, my values, you know, as an opportunity to check and see, am I in alignment with the things that matter most to me? But the, that's where the thread led, was to those guardrails.
Luke (00:27:13):
You know, I think it's, it's interesting 'cause I think those threads and those questions first starting of, you know, what is it that matters now? And then being able to ask, what is it that, that's gotta feel worthwhile for me to do with my life even just today, doesn't even have to be for all time just today or this week. I think there's a lot of individuals asking that question and those questions right now because of the period of time that we have just found ourselves in, we are, right? We're reevaluating all of the things that we had prioritized and we're looking at the way we're spending our time and who we're spending it with and who we're reworking for. And all of these types of questions and saying, is that, you know, now that I, I look at what's mattered in the last 18 months, does that still hold true? And it's why we're seeing mass change going on in the workforce and things like that right now is 'cause people are answering those questions very, very differently.
During the pandemic, I was already entering into an interesting time of transition. This question of 'What did I want to center my life around?' was one that was already on my mind. I couldn't go anywhere. We didn't have any social engagements with friends or family to keep up with. We couldn't head out to the restaurants for a long time. There was just simply no avoiding it. It was time to just be with myself. Let's not, married with kids and yes, I still had all sorts of things to keep up with, but I also took the time to just be on my own, to go for walks, hike around nature, begin my days with longer meditations by getting up early, read books even just for the fun of it. Not only for reflection, I began to feel my nervous system settle and the years of rushing and rushing and rushing for more and more and more, began to melt away.
Then the pandemic began to lift. Our communities started to open back up and operate more fully. And with that, I started having a variety of opportunities come back my way. And I was being faced with a different dilemma. I was being faced with some pretty attractive opportunities, some invitations to get involved in exciting projects or businesses. But I recognized that it would put me back on track with the pace of life that I had just left behind. So was I going to say no to those things? Was I going to pass them up this time? Or would I prioritize that ability, that newfound space to breathe, to appreciate the space that I was fortunate enough to have and be patient until I knew exactly what my next step was while also making sure that step was in alignment with my new state of mind. I had to begin to make those choices.
And what I realized was that most of my conditioning was to live a life that was focused on outcomes in turn, making me work backwards to figure out what was my starting point, what was going to be my path to make sure that I achieved the very thing that I was after. It's not a bad path. In fact, it was one that treated me very, very well. However, that path also means that I'm focusing on something outside of myself and then building my life around that thing. That's external, I've been there, I've done that. And it never gave me the sustainable satisfaction and fulfillment that I was looking for. So instead now, I'm doing my best to live and make my choices from the center out. Meaning my center is peace. That peace for me embodies balance and joy, love and truth, simplicity and integrity.
Also within that piece is a deep connection to my true nature, whether you want to call it that or the essential self, the soul, the true self as Thomas Merton proclaimed, it's okay with me. To me, this simply means being in alignment with what I truly and deeply value. It means that I need to figure out those innate talents within the design of who it is that I am and listen to that inner voice and guidance and be true to it, frankly. It's from that place that I started this podcast because on this walk of life, on this latest walk in my life, I want to live from my center out. And I wish the same for you.
There's a part there I wanted to, to pull on a little further and, and Billy bring you into this part of the conversation, 'cause what I heard Tambre saying was bringing in also that piece of love of self and allowing herself to be part of these questions to be part of how this moves forward. And I know it's one of the things that you prioritized was not always true, that you prioritized that relationship with self and recognizing how important love of self was going to be to your journey. And I was wondering if you could just speak to a bit of how you connected to that thread because to me it's such a central thread for, for who you are and, and kind of what's emerged for you in your life now.
Billy (00:32:18):
Before I get to that point, Luke, I think it's important also to share with the audience, in that void space and that dark space where I was really just chaotically moving through my monkey mind and staying out late, doing things that I wasn't proud of. I made a decision in that void that I need to just keep moving forward and if I'm gonna keep moving forward, I need to ritualize what I value. Because if I don't ritualize with what I value, it's, it's not gonna happen. I'm not just gonna wake up and say, oh, I'm, what should I do today? I'm gonna go pray and meditate. And, and so for three or four months, I ritualized four things. I did yoga, I meditated, did some breathwork every day, I prayed, and I went for a walk in the woods for an hour or two. And those pillars really led me to a space where I could finally look at, at the relationship I had with myself and maybe first as a father, as a husband, as a family man, the last person that I was ever looking to serve was myself.
And what I recognized in that darkness and in that void as I began to ritualize some of what I valued, is that first and foremost, I had to acknowledge this relationship that I had with myself and acknowledge that maybe, maybe I haven't really been so good to myself over my lifetime and you know, Tambre mentions expectations, and my dad used to say to me, like I have an expectation that I want every day and every moment to be a 10 and that's just not a, a realistic expectation. So it was through these values and these rituals that allowed me some space to look at this, this relationship. And you know, I'm not walking around having a pity party for myself 24/7, I'm not like in the corner of the room feeling sorry for myself. But I, what I found in this space was that there was some low level stuff going on that was having a, a global impact on my interaction with the world. And there was two things. One, I didn't think I was good enough at the core. And secondly, I, I thought that I had to do great things to be loved. And I've worked through some of those things and I'm, I'm gonna continue working through those two things for the rest of my life. It's a constant process because I'm triggered all the time and things come up and sure, do I get a little bit better at dealing with the triggers? Yeah, but I, I still have my moments. I still have my moments.
Luke (00:34:31):
First, let me do this. Let me go, let me go to the pillars of what you just brought up and I, Tambre please add to this. One of the things you, you mentioned, I mean, you mentioned meditation, prayer, yoga, but it was also the walk in the woods. And for me, that was actually a, that was true. That was, I mean, identical that I had a period of time and this actually started before the, the burnout made its kind of full appearance in my mirror, but I started prioritizing and I actually think this is why it was able to surface for me was I was prioritizing being out in nature and having that time, that solitude to actually learn how to be with myself, you know, you think about how much we value distraction in society right now, what can we do to not feel what it is that we are feeling? And instead watch, you know, binge watch or scroll or whatever it is gonna be the addictions or whatever it is that is gonna keep us from feeling what it is that we're feeling.
And I started to go out and prioritize this idea of being alone with myself and then finding ways of, you know, first it was just getting out and then I realized, hmm, some point I'm gonna have to turn off the podcasts or I'm gonna have to turn off the audio books and I'm just gonna have to listen to me and you've gotta go through that kind of phase to be able to see and let, surface what's there. And it's in, in years of, of doing this type of work that you just described, the two, you know, these two low level things that were in the background for you. And I think there, there, I, I have a lot of truth with what you just said there too.
But I also recognized that I wasn't allowing myself to feel and grieve for some of the sadness that was there. I wasn't facing some of the anger and the frustration that was there, any resentments that maybe I had as well. I was just kind of glossing over those. And yet, once I started to have a little bit more of the courage to look at those things, face them, have a dialogue with them to actually understand why are you here? What, you know, what, what were you providing? What do you need to see from me? Or what do you need to, to acknowledge or meet of acknowledge for this to release? All of a sudden I could have those conversations and things just started rapidly changing. There's a bit more to that part of the journey as well, but I'm, the ritualizing of these different practices created that space so that I could get more real, more honest with myself about what needed to unfold. Tambre, how about for you? Cause I, I know there's a, a few things that you picked up along the way that have helped you with this process.
Tambre (00:36:56):
Sometimes it was harder for me because I would see these things out on social media, oh, meditate, use the Calm app, you know, things like that. And it was just like, it doesn't really quite fit. Certainly, walking does help. But one of the things, again, expectations, I took the expectations off of myself of what that, what those rituals should look like. And so for me now, it's getting coffee in the morning and walking down to the beach, 'cause I completely changed my life last year and moved to Puerto Rico. And I now live and work from an island in the Caribbean, which is like so awesome. I can't believe, I know I pinched myself often, but you know, it's a 15 minute deal and I go down to the beach and sometimes I do a little bit of blogging on my phone there and that's it.
And then a lot of it also is I need sports and athletics and movement to get into my body. And so the walking helps with that, but what helps even more are things like dancing. I took up salsa dancing right about the time I went to coach training school and that developed into, you know, a 10 year long exploration of tango over the last decade and really looking at, you know, mastery and, and learning what I could learn from those dances about myself, about others, about connection, you know, connecting emotionally, connecting energetically, connecting physically and all the wonderful pieces that come with that. And of course with the pandemic, that was a big loss for me. Now I haven't done social dancing and no tango, you're, you're cheek to cheek. So I had to find something, something else. So I recently took up kiteboarding and it's super challenging and you know, I've got some bumps and some bruises and done some, you know, face down smack downs into the water that really brought me back into my body for sure.
But that's what I need. Like I need to be able to go out and be in the sun and the water and to feel the kite in my hands and to work with the elements and harness that. And now I can't think about anything but being present in the moment and feeling my body and being in my body. So that's becoming a ritual for me is making sure I'm doing something every day that gets me into my body because my body is where it all starts with me. When I'm feeling an emotion, when I'm confused, anything else like that, it starts as a physical feeling for me. And so I need to honor that physical connection and that physical relationship that I have with myself. Cause it has so much information for me and it gives me such, such a great way to get back in touch with myself.
Luke (00:39:21):
I think that's probably more true for more people than may realize it, you know, in, in this particular moment, is the need to be able to get back into our bodies. How many of us have, have lived most of our lives from the neck up? I was, I'll be honest, when I took up things like, you know, mindfulness meditation and, and got into to the understanding of somatics and things like that, it was like, oh wow, there's a whole body that exists over there and that's pretty cool. There's, there, it's even got some feelings and emotions that can come up and it was, it was new, right? It was, I, I had, you know, kept that down for so long, but it's being in your body, whatever that means to you, right? So whether it is walking or if it is more athletic or if it means sitting and being, it could be yoga, it could just be that felt sense of, of how do I begin to pay attention to what's arising? What are the sensations that are even arising in my body? There's so much intelligence there and there's so much connectivity that that brings you into.
Billy (00:40:16):
Dr. Daniel Amen did an exercise last year, I believe. My friend was talking about it online and I was scrolling and it was the mirror challenge. And you've mentioned the mirror a couple times, Luke, and the challenge that Dr. Daniel Amen put out there was go into your bathroom mirror and look yourself in the eye and say, I love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. And you know, I first heard my friend talking about this and who's a pretty well known speaker, and I said, this is such a cheesy activity. And in the second breath, I'm like, I have to try it. And so I go home and I get in my bathroom mirror and I look myself in the eye and I'm like, I love you, Billy. I love you, Billy. I love you, Billy. And I feel nothing. And I walk out of my bathroom and having two children, I desperately want my songs to know how much I, I love them. One of the last things my father said to me at Sloan in the city before he died was, do you know how much I love you?
And so I'm constantly trying to do this with my sons. And so when I talk to my sons, it's really genuine and authentic. Like, hey, I love you. And so I walked back into the bathroom and I said, you know what? If I can talk to my sons, JD and Casey, in a really soft, loving way, I, I ought to be able to talk to myself in that way. And so I looked myself in the mirror, I got really close. And I said, I love you, Billy. I love you, Billy. I love you, Billy. And something started to just really just soften. At first, I was like, man, I've never looked at my eyes like this. I've looked at other people's eyes, I think eyes are beautiful. Like, you know, windows to the soul, not mine though. And for the first time at like 40 fucking six years old, I'm looking in the mirror and I'm saying, I love you. And I mean it, and so that is a practice that has had a pivotal impact on me. I do all kinds of practices, but that, that one specifically is something that I still do. And I've gotten a lot better at it. I even started before COVID, a talk that I did with those three, three sentences, Billy, I love you. Billy, I love you. Billy, I love you. Which five, 10 years ago is something I never even would've considered.
Luke (00:42:16):
Absolutely. No I wanna, I wanna certainly encourage everybody to try that. You will be amazed if you spend a little bit more time having that conversation with the mirror, whether it's a practice, like I love you and being able to work on that, or if it is dialogue to get connected in a deeper way, as I kind of described in the, the first episode, it, it can be pretty opening, sometimes a little shattering even, but it changes the way that we relate, 'cause we never spend that time. And it's, it's difficult when we're sitting on our own, right? And we're like, we're trying to be meditative and okay, we're gonna have that nice conversation with myself. Sometimes just doesn't click, it doesn't work that way. Sometimes literally being in relationship with yourself. And if the mirror helps, it can evoke that. It can, you can use that as a tool.
You can use that as a practice that opens things up. I mean, the other thing though, they, I also really wanted to highlight Billy with what you just brought up, just for a moment, everybody just think about that soft, nurturing, loving voice that Billy just described of him to his children or you to your children or you to your nieces and nephews or to your loved one. And that nurturing voice, that calm, present, loving voice that you give them. And now I would like you to juxtapose that voice with your internal dialogue. Sound a little different sound a little painful, we don't talk, right? Big gap, big gap. Huge. And right, for, for every, just to take a moment and say, you know, if there are so many different parts that exist within us, right? There's the part of us that wants to please, the part that wants to achieve, the part that wants to be loved, the part that, you know, might be angry, the part that wants to be the explorer, the part that wants to do everything right and structured, so many different parts within us. And we spend most of our time either trying to repress them or argue with them as opposed to having that nurturing, loving conversation with them, to be able to invite them in, to be able to welcome them in and have a true, loving, nurturing conversation. And now all of a sudden, just like you were having it with your own children, your niece, your nephew, or somebody else, the temperature comes down, things get calmer, things get more subtle. There's better understanding, there's more connection that's there. And we start reforming that connection with self and with cells in a manner that helps us move further and further back into wholeness, as opposed to all the fragmenting that's going on.
Tambre (00:44:36):
So we've done a lot of talk about, you know, self work and self conversations and these wonderful internal dialogues and things like that. But the process of reinvention, as we've said, it's not easy, it's tricky. And something sometimes that we need is somebody else to hold that space for us and Luke, like no secret, that's what you were for me. You know, I finished my coach training at iPEC and the best decision of my life was that I hired you as my coach, 'cause I knew I needed somebody to hold my feet to the fire and go after this thing that I wanted so badly and get outta my own way. But at the beginning I didn't believe in myself, and sometimes we need somebody like you who holds that space and gives us that sense that we are enough. We have something valuable to give others and that we're going to have a partner, for part of this walk, for the time that we need it, in order to fully understand and embrace that within ourselves.
And I wanna thank you for that because my work with you was life changing and the work that I do now and the way that I do it reaches thousands of people every year within the healthcare system. And it's changing the experience for people who are chronically ill or terminally ill. And when I first started with you, I didn't believe I could do something like that. And so this space that you're creating each week, that you do this podcast where people can come and start to have these conversations is amazing and that they can have them with you and start to participate. It's so important because we cannot do this all alone, we are not meant to live in a vacuum. Life isn't lived in a vacuum. I am not doing what I'm doing because of Tambre only. So I just wanted to add that into the conversation that sometimes we need a coach.
Billy (00:46:26):
I love what you added, Tambre, and I love this synergy between the two of you guys and just this idea that sometimes you need to believe in somebody else's belief before you believe in your, in your own, that was just so beautifully said.
Luke (00:46:39):
Tambre, just a, a big, thank you. I was not, certainly not expecting that. And I greatly, greatly appreciate that. That, uh, warms me up, warms my heart. I've greatly valued the time that we had and in the ways that we had and seeing what you've done since and the way you're flourishing is just amazing. It's, it's, what I always do is there, but it's awesome to see it.
Tambre's words not only touched me, but they've also made me reflect on the times in my life where someone has held this space for me. I've worked with coaches, guides and facilitators for the past 20 years. The experiences that were the most powerful were the ones where whomever I was working with was able to hold a mirror up to me, to my words, my actions, my life. And they helped me to see what they were seeing. They helped me to see many things I wasn't, they were my mirrors all along. Sometimes it was extremely difficult to see what they were seeing to see how much I had strayed from my path, strayed from who it was that I wished to become, and in many ways, who I always was. And yet at other times they helped me to see strengths and qualities and possibilities within me that I had a hard time letting in.
Most recently, and I won't be sharing too much of this experience yet, but it will be shared when I'm ready. Anyway, most recently, as part of a program, I had formed what was called an anchor council, and this was not a coach or a guide or a teacher I was working with. That was the program, but not this anchor council. This council was a group of very close friends who simply held the space for me within this created safe container for the experience, the experience that I was going through. For me to be able to share the experience of what I was facing, of what I was experiencing of what was unfolding. I shared into that council some of my greatest fears and my most intimate thoughts, my complete vulnerabilities, open for them to see what unfolded and the love that I felt was like nothing I can describe. Some of their affirmations back to me still bring me to tears. It's just one of many experiences that have led me to create this space that is On This Walk. Something you're going to keep hearing me say, and Tambre said it just a bit ago, we could go on our journeys of growth, of transformation, of grief, of transition, we could go on these journeys alone, but we do not have to. Too many of us have done the solo thing for long enough. We can do this together.
I think that, the part I wanted to, to just raise before I shift a little bit to that reinvention for the, the, the last segment of, of our time together, was just kind of call out and I'd love you guys to call out any more that you noticed, was what, when we want to connect with purpose, what does that require of us or ask of us? And several of the things that I've heard was that there's a great deal of self honesty that is needed. There is an awareness of our conditioning, meaning what were those things that we were trying to, to call our purpose for the sake of society or for the sake of family or for the sake of just security and safety. Maybe that was our purpose in time, but it's not really our deeper purpose, our more purposeful life. So we've gotta get very honest with that.
We've gotta have a great deal of love of self and to be compassionate with self on this journey, because this is not a one and done. This says you don't snap your fingers and all of a sudden this figured out, it just doesn't work that way, it doesn't get revealed to us in, in one, you know, perfect glimpse. There's also a period of exploration. And so even as we start to, to move things forward, I mean, I remember even just the exploration I went through before I moved this show forward was I went through so many different ways, so many different iterations of not only what the show could look like, but what were all of the other alternatives that I was looking at, as opposed to creating this type of space and bringing people into these types of conversations. And I needed to try those things on, some I needed to go and do, some I needed to sit with almost like a thought experiment and like, what would it look like? How would that feel? And picture myself within those, those images. There's also a period of stillness and silence that's needed so we can get to know and be in conversation, be in relationship with ourselves again. And so I'm just kinda curious for Billy and Tambre, any, anything else that you heard in our conversation that occurs to you now of what purpose, when we wanna go on this journey, this walk with purpose, what it asks of us to do so we can reveal itself to us.
Billy (00:51:21):
You know, one thing I, I would add Luke, and I think you touched upon it in your summary there is just, uh, this idea of courage, right? I love the way Brené Brown defines courage, allowing yourself to be really seen. And I think throughout this, this process that we've spoken about, all three of us, at some point, decided to, to really allow the truth of ourselves to be seen. And instead of people running or, or scattering, it just made us more accessible for those relationships. Uh, it gave people more opportunities to, to kind of plug in, just honored to be a part of this conversation.
Luke (00:51:54):
Thank you, Billy. The, the I'm glad you, you just circled it back to being seen as well. 'Cause I think Tambre, you had, you had touched on this in, in talking about being able to reach out to a guy to coach who can support you through the type of process, is that as we're going through this, when you can be witnessed, you can be witnessed through the pain as well as through the joy, when you can be witnessed through the awarenesses that come in, as well as the things that you don't see and being grappling with that, but being in partnership, being in relationship, being seen, and whether it's with a coach or it's joining a circle or it's some type of community, or it's a, you know, a group that you are part of, it allows yourself to, number one, acknowledge the truth of where you're at, and to be honest with that. It also allows you to feel less alone 'cause as you share and you receive that acceptance and you recognize that other people are, they're not judging you for what you're going through and that they too are also saying, yeah, I'm gonna raise my hand, I'm kind of going through this too. And that's happening a whole lot more often than we get, we have any idea of. And when we go through that and then we actually start to say, these are the parts of myself I wanna own again. And people can affirm that to you. It just draws you out and it, it, you wanna start stepping further and further back into those things. So it can be a very, very important and powerful part of this process is to allow yourself to be witnessed, allow yourself to be seen.
I'm amazed in, in all of the support that I've received. And just to, to be clear, I mean, Tambre you spoke to this so well, I've worked with coaches, I've worked with groups, I've been on retreats, I've done journeys, I've worked in circles, never ending for me in terms of, you know, committing to what are the environments and the support that will continue to support this journey for me and with me. It's an important part of this, and again, that's part of what we're doing here is to recognize there's a whole community, a very, very, very, very large community of people that are trying to do this. Maybe Tambre, I could, if, if I could ask you then to, to shift us into this kind of closing segment of the reinvention piece and you know, when you start pulling on those threads and, and those threads of service and wanting to help others and recognizing that that's what matters as well as what is it that you feel it was worthwhile for your life and, and with the way that you spent your life, how did you finally, like what were some of those steps that ignited it further and started to say, yes, lean further into this. How did you recognize that? What were some of those steps that you took so that momentum could build not the end picture, but the momentum could build towards it?
Tambre (00:54:27):
I'd say the first thing that came up was fear. So there was that point, that moment that I reached where I was like, I can't do this. And that was a coaching call with you. And you asked me a question because I was procrastinating and I knew what I needed to do in order to move forward, and I just wasn't doing it. And I knew what my purpose was, but I wasn't taking those steps. And the question you asked led me to this statement, which was, I'm not willing to live in a world where cancer survivors and caregivers don't have access to coaching and support and resources to improve their experience. I'm just not willing. And that was the flame, and that was the fire for me. Because it wasn't about me, it wasn't about my fear of, can I sell a program or will I get clients?
It was like, this was, I have to do this because it's missing, it's a gap and I can fill that gap, I know I can fill that gap. And so that sparked the first, probably four or five years. And it took a while before I started to ask the question, now what do I need? How am I feeling in this moment? Is this what I wanna be experiencing in my life? Is this who I want to be experiencing life with? Is this where I wanna be experiencing life? So asking those questions to identify the gaps and then being willing to take the risks and make the changes that I needed to make in order to continue to narrow that more and more of, yes, this is the day that I wanna be having. This is the way I wanna get up. This is the experience that I wanna include. And so it was two phases.
Luke (00:56:00):
Can I ask, 'cause there something that just kind of occurred to me in this part of the journey, because you described the, the, this, what I asked, which is around the, these pieces of reinvention and then, and how the momentum build and pulling on that. But it just occurred to me that as you then went through different iterations of this, meaning, trying on, on one way, trying it on the next and seeing which was the one that was going to stick to take hold. There's something that changed to me in this last, I, it could be six, seven years, maybe a little bit longer, where all of a sudden, like everything just clicked for you. And I'm just curious if you know what it was that finally, like something dropped in so deep that it went from, I'm doing it, I'm moving it forward, it's coming. And then it was like, it's here, I have it. And then everything just started coming to you. And I'm just curious if you know, what, what that, to me, there's something that dropped in and I'm curious what it is.
Tambre (00:56:49):
I'm not sure if I can put my finger exactly on, on it. But there was a moment when I said yes to something that was, it was audacious for me to say yes. I was speaking at a cancer survivorship conference. I had been working with iPEC and my time with iPEC was coming to a close, you know, which was an amazing journey all on itself. And a gentleman from a pharmaceutical company walked up to me and he said, I've listened to you talk and I am hearing what these coaching concepts are about, and can you teach my team to do better with patients?
And I said, yes. I didn't have a program, I didn't have, there was nothing, nothing on my website about this. And six weeks later, I was on the road training specialty pharmacies all, all across the country with a program that I developed in that short period of time, the audacity to say yes, because what I saw was this is it. This is how I go from helping one cancer survivor and one caregiver here and there to changing the way that this system works. So I don't know how I'm gonna do this. I don't know what it looks like, but I'm saying yes this time.
Luke (00:58:01):
I love that. The audacity to say yes, that, it is right. Because in that moment, all of a sudden, it's just like, everything starts kind of coming together conspiring and say, you said yes now, let's do this. And it's such a galvanizing type of, of moment to step into that expression of who you are. Amazing.
Tambre (00:58:20):
Yeah. And there, there was one other piece to it too. I stopped at one point and I asked, I said to myself, when is a time or situation where you have not figured this out? Where you have not been able to find a solution? Even if something went completely wrong, I have always, always been able to figure it out. And that was the other piece of the confidence of like, it doesn't matter what happens. I will figure it out.
Luke (00:58:46):
Yeah. When you go back and recognize the amount of resources and strength and talent that we each have, because we have figured these things out and we figured out different pieces along the way. But when we're in the moment of stress or the moment of question, the moment of doubt, we don't go back and refresh ourselves on all those internal resources we have. Just for, for every, and then I, Billy, I wanna, I'm gonna ask for your perspective on all this. I know the question I asked you way back when, and I've wanna share that with everybody, which was that question that led you to the way that you wanted to be able to, to connect with patients, see if I can get this right. What is the gift, vision or dream that you are no longer willing to withhold from the world? So what is the gift, vision or dream that you are no longer willing to withhold from this world? And this world could be your house. It could be the corner of your community. It could be your community, or it could be something much bigger than that. Don't get daunted by thinking, I mean, big, it's just for you. You define what that world means, your society, your community, define it and start to figure out what is it that you wanna put in from that perspective?
Tambre (00:59:55):
That was exactly the question.
Luke (00:59:57):
It was, right? I did get, I did, I did remember. I did get it right. Perfect. Billy, I wanna kind of just flip back to, to your perspective of, you know, this, this reinvention that we go through so that we connect more deeply with our purpose and feel like we are living that purposeful life that we are meant to live, or certainly that we are living into. And I'm just curious for your perspectives on, you know, what you've done and, and what you've connected to that allow that invention, that allow that purposeful living to really come through you.
Billy (01:00:26):
Most definitely, Luke. Tambre, also first, I, I, I just love, I love what you said about the audacity to say yes. And thank you for saying yes, you're an incredible, extraordinary woman. I'm still in the process of this reinvention, which I, I'm kind of really happy about because as I was saying before, I, I am in the void, but I am closer to kind of knowing what that purpose looks like, what that purpose looks like in form. And I'm really comfortable right now with being uncomfortable. I had an interesting thing happen this week. Uh, or last week I was up for a big job where I would be at the top of the company. And, uh, it was kind of an interesting place to throw my, my name in the hat, but I said, I'm gonna, and I'm gonna let the universe tell me what she thinks I should do. Last week, I found out that, that I didn't get the job. And although in the moment, in the first breath, it was a little disappointing. In the second breath, I felt really relieved because it was gonna box me in. And for this second half of life, Luke, I've spent the last two and a half years building a foundation of rituals, of what I value, of my relationship with myself, so that I can be really in alignment with the truth of who I am for this second half. I can't tell you exactly what it looks like in form, but I can tell you that I, I'm going to confidently serve the world in the way that I'm supposed to.
Tambre (01:01:46):
That's beautiful.
Luke (01:01:49):
Yeah, absolutely.
Billy (01:01:50):
Thanks, Tambre.
Luke (01:01:51):
You know, Billy, it's interesting. And I, I guess maybe just to, to also be very clear for everybody, you're watching my reinvention process right now, I have no idea where this is gonna go. This is an exploration and experiment to project or more, don't know. We're gonna find out, we're gonna see where this thing goes. And I don't know what it's meant to lead to. I knew for me, this was my first saying yes of, I needed to say yes to begin to move something into reality. And I don't know what this leads to, and this is gonna be an exploration. This is gonna be a process where we're in it together. As I've described, you know, the part of there's many, many meanings. And I guess they'll get revealed over time, there's many meanings to the phrase on this walk. What I know and what was part of the energy of what's being shared today and why I'm doing this was I wanted walking partners.
I wanted to go on this walk with people. You know, I don't put myself out there to be your teacher. I'm meant to walk with you side by side. And that's what we're doing here today with Tambre, with Billy, is to walk side by side and to see where this thing goes. That's what you guys are, are getting to witness to be, to be clear. I don't have it all figured out. And it feels really good to say that, it feels great to say that.
Billy (01:03:04):
I love it. Love it. Love it.
Luke (01:03:06):
I do wanna acknowledge there was, there was one question that popped in and I really, I, you know, sometimes I have to take some questions, not always, but this one I just, I had to, because it was asked of how does an introvert begin the process of healing through a community? I love that.
And the reason why I love that is most people do not know is I'm a tremendous introvert. I love time on my own. I have to recharge on my own. Solitude is beauty to me. There was a moment, I'll be honest, there was a moment about six months into the pandemic and everything is shut down and everything is closed down, and my wife and I are sitting and watching a movie, I think it was on TV. And we kinda look at each other and go, oh, I guess if there's gotta be something in this for us, it's the fact that we haven't had to attend anything in six months, and we're okay with that. Which this moment of just, just kind of, you know, recognizing as introverts, we could make this work. And so anyhow, back to the question. There are, to me, the place, one of there's two different things that immediately come to mind for an introvert.
Number one is it may be that you are more comfortable initially working one on one with somebody. Okay. So it might be a guide, a coach, therapist, what have, what have you, but community, there are processes such as circling, which is a very, very intimate gathering of usually six to eight people. And it is, usually they're facilitated, it might be pure led if somebody's got the experience for it. And it is a much more intimate way of gathering. I would actually encourage you, there's a beautiful book, there's many that are out there actually on, if you look up circling, go find many beautiful books on this. But the one that, that kind of lit me up was A Hidden Wholeness by Parker Palmer, and it talks about the process that he used for the circle of trust for a very, very long period of time.
And it's now offered by, the circling is, is offered in many, many, many different ways, but the reason I bring it up is because it gives you the chance to speak to a very, very small group, a group that is highly cultivated, that has guidelines for the way in which they are going to operate with one another and how they're gonna hold that space and respect each other in connection. And very often, not often, part of the beauty of a circle is that you're not receiving advice, you're not receiving opinions. This is not specifically feedback for somebody to tell you, oh, I think this, think that, maybe you should look at this. It is a chance for you to express what you need to express and for you to be witnessed in that place of expression. And it is so liberating to be able to be in a space like that and to feel that acceptance, to feel the lack of judgment of being in a space like that, to feel the sanctity and the sacredness of those types of moments and experiences, that is a process that kind of answers or starts to answer for introverts.
It can be a really, really, really great step. That has been true for me, I will certainly say that as an introvert, that has helped me open up. And what's also beautiful about that, and then just other experiences is that as an introvert, when you begin to invite people into that inner world, you realize you may have a whole lot more to share with them and for them to learn from that share than you realize, because very often introverts have a different dialogue with their inner world. They can be very, very rich, and it means that we can kind of invite people into seeing themselves that way, by the way that we share. It's honestly, it's again, get another part of why I'm doing what I'm doing is to share this way, share this openly with everybody, because I know that these are a lot of the inner dialogues we're all having.
And so I wanted to invite you into that process. And I'll also just continue to invite you back to the On This Walk community, because that's also part of what we will be building together, is how can we do this in dialogue? How can we do this in connection and community with one another? And so I invite you to, to stay in touch with that and stay tuned in with, with that as well.
So we are at the end of our time together, we are at the end of this walk, but certainly not the end of the walk. And I just want to appreciate so much and offer so much gratitude, Tambre, to the beauty of your words, your journey, your expression, your experience, the energy that you shared with us today for letting us in to see that journey, because it is so unbelievably inspiring.
Thank you for saying yes to all that you do and yes, to On This Walk. Billy, a huge thank you and gratitude to you as well. I meant that you are a soul brother. We have had, you know, many, uh, as I learned many, a saunter, not just a walk, a saunter, a sacred walk in the woods as it were, and the way in which you share the reflective nature of who you are, the nurturing that comes through the way that you describe things is something that I so greatly appreciate you sharing with the On This Walk crowd and On This Walk community. And I wanna thank you guys for being my walking partners with purpose today.
Tambre (01:07:40):
Thank you so much.
Billy (01:07:40):
Thank you for the invite, Luke.
Luke (01:07:42):
Very welcome.
Tambre (01:07:42):
Thanks, Billy.
Billy (01:07:43):
Yeah, Tambre, what an honor to, to connect with you today. You're incredible.
Tambre (01:07:47):
Same here.
Luke (01:07:48):
And for everyone, I want to thank you for joining us on this walk today for walking with peace, for walking with reinvention and with love of self, self, and with all of the insights that we had today. I'm also pleased to say that we are, our next episode, our next show will be back next week. And we are going to dive further into the illusions we walk with, the masks that we wear, and I've got an extraordinary guest coming up, Ashanti Branch, who is, his work has been featured in a documentary. It was called The Mask We Live In, which is very, very powerful commentary on masculinity and the masculine culture and what that's doing to young boys and young men. And we will expand to this conversation to see all of the different ways these masks are showing up. And I'll even admit to a couple of the masks that I have worn through the years.
You probably can allude to at least a few of them based on the last two episodes that we've had to share with you. So I'm looking forward to that walk and to what that walk will reveal as we take those masks down. In the meantime, continue to follow us at onthiswalk.com, join the, the list that's there, join the community that you have access to so that we can keep this conversation going to keep this walk going together as well as be sure to find us on social. Just look me up as Luke Iorio, and you will certainly find me. Once again, I thank Tambre for being with us today, Billy, for being with us today, and for all of you, for walking with us. So until next time, I ask that you continue to enjoy your walk. Thank you.
Thank you for joining me for this episode of On This Walk. Before signing off, please subscribe to the show and don't miss a single episode. Also, please rate and review us. This helps me greatly in getting the word out about this show. And remember, this is just the start of our conversation. To keep it going, ask questions, add your own thoughts, join the ongoing conversation by just heading over to onthiswalk.com and click on Community in the upper right hand corner. It's free to join. Until we go on this walk again, I'm Luke Iorio. Be well.