046 - Unlocking the Power of Effortless Mindfulness: A Journey Towards Awakening
Are you tired of constantly feeling like you're not enough? Do you find yourself yearning for a deeper sense of well-being and connection in your life? If so, then we have great news for you. A transformative practice called effortless mindfulness can help you unlock a world of inner peace and profound connection.
This week On This Walk, my walking partner is Loch Kelly, an award-winning author, licensed psychotherapist, and recognized leader in the field of meditation and awakening. He is the founder of the nonprofit Effortless Mindfulness Institute. The institute is dedicated to teaching direct methods to access awake awareness, living from a flow state, nondual mindfulness, and heart mindfulness.
We discuss the concept of effortless mindfulness and how it differs from conventional mindfulness. Loch shares his journey toward mindfulness and how his father's passing led him to explore and develop effortless mindfulness. Loch provides a simple five-minute practice to help listeners access this more spacious awareness. The conversation also covers the importance of acknowledging the different parts that makeup who we are and how being aware of these parts can help us make more conscious choices.
In This Episode
(00:53) Introduction to Loch and his approach to mindfulness
(04:15) Loch’s first glimpses that led him toward mindfulness
(10:28) What is effortless mindfulness?
(17:09) The glimpse practices that are part of the effortless mindfulness tradition
(18:14) How effortless mindfulness helps people feel relaxed and calm
(19:57) The deeper sense of well-being that exists within us and how it can be difficult to connect to it
(24:43) Optimal functioning from a non-worried being
(27:54) How effortless mindfulness leads to deeper well-being and a more fulfilling life
(29:51) How parts work helps you be present to all within you that needs to speak
(33:56) The importance of acknowledging and holding all parts of ourselves in our awareness
(36:55) Building awareness and recognizing the capacity to hold challenging experiences
(38:11) What is non-dual feeling
(40:17) Benefits and an example of effortless mindfulness in relationships
(47:02) Waking up: accessing awake consciousness and deconstructing the ego
(54:30) Upgrading our operating system
(56:21) The practice of letting go of the problem solver
Notable Quote
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“One of the unique premises of effortless mindfulness is that you're remembering to remember that the peace, love, freedom, clarity, and the optimal sense of self is already here within us and it's just uncovering, discovering, or remembering that it's not like other skills or knowledge where we need to use our mind to read a lot of books or develop a skill called meditation that will lead us to a cleaner mind. It's literally just like opening up to find a dimension that's subtler and more spacious, but more pervasive and more interconnected. And when we find that sense of being, then that's the goal of what we're looking for because there's a sense of wellbeing, bliss, and clarity that's already here within us.” - Loch
Our Guest
Loch Kelly, M.Div., LCSW, is an award-winning author, psychotherapist, and meditation expert. Founder of Effortless Mindfulness Institute, he collaborates with neuroscientists, teaches nondual pointers, and promotes open-hearted awareness to reduce suffering and support personal development.
Resources & Links
On This Walk
Loch Kelly
Mentioned
The Way of Effortless Mindfulness https://www.amazon.com/Way-Effortless-Mindfulness-Revolutionary-Awakened-ebook/dp/B07FDR6M2T
Zen in the Art of Archery https://www.amazon.com/Zen-Art-Archery-Eugen-Herrigel/dp/0375705090
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[00:00:00] Luke: You're listening to on this Walk, the show that helps men rediscover their unique path to true freedom. My name is Luke Iorio. I've spent the last two decades in the human potential industry helping teaching, coaching thousands of people to create a more fulfilling, deeply aligned life. It is my mission to reawaken and reconnect men to the joy, purpose, and peace that will help you to become who you aspire to be.
[00:00:28] Now, let's turn to today's walk. What is our path to freedom? How do I find it? Heck, how do we even know where to begin? Freedom has always been a central value of mine and as well as it's also felt like a pursuit. Initially, I wanted to be free in the sense of financial security and that I wanted the same level of freedom with my time, the freedom to do what I wanted, with whom I wanted, when I wanted.
[00:00:54] That wasn't really freedom. In fact, chasing those circumstances has brought out more stress, more attempts to try to control the uncontrollable or just simply a lack of contentment with where I was and what I was experiencing right here and right now. Freedom was supposed to lead me to less stress and more fun, but it was having the opposite impact.
[00:01:14] There's a lot of reasons for that, and this is only a glimmer of what we even mean by freedom. Ultimately, when I started to turn within and look at the factors within me that were creating liberation or creating confinement, that's when I started to dive much more deeply into mindfulness and along the way through multiple schools of mindfulness, some that helped immensely, and others that were nice respites, but nothing monumental.
[00:01:39] I discovered effortless mindfulness. To say that I was deeply intrigued even by the name, let alone the promise of this work is an understatement. Effortless mindfulness is meant to be a way of shifting into a much freer, more easeful, more aware and more centered state, and that sounded much more like the true freedom that I was looking to connect to.
[00:01:59] You're remembering to
[00:02:00] Loch: remember, in other words, that the peace, the love, the freedom, the clarity, the optimal sense of. Self is already here within us. Well, the
[00:02:13] Luke: Pioneer author teacher behind Effortless Mindfulness is Lock Kelly, and I was fortunate enough to get him to sit down with us and talk to us from the perspective of shifting into Freedom, which is both the title of his second book, but also a part of this path to freedom that we cover so much on this show as this approach seeks to connect us to our awareness and presence.
[00:02:33] Beyond the always chattering mind, meaning freeing us from the thoughts states of consciousness and limited perspectives that often keep us stuck within old conditioned ways of living our lives. Instead of creating more of what we want and need, we keep recreating what we already have. Well, Locke Kelly is devoted much of his life to finding a path of freedom and flow.
[00:02:55] His journey started young. A moment playing on the ice and a chance encounter with an older teammate created the curiosity and a need to understand and that curiosity, could it really lead him to an experience of Zen? Could he return to that peacefulness and calm over and over and over again? Well, I'm gonna guess you can pretty much figure out how that went because he's been teaching this for over 30 years now.
[00:03:20] Lock even is gonna walk you through a quick practice near the end of this conversation to help that chatty problem solver part of the mind quiet down. And in doing so, get a glimpse of quick shift into the more aware, mindful space. And he's been describing and teaching for so long. Now just before we dive into the episode, if you have been receiving benefit from anything actually going forward in this episode or generally on this podcast, on this walk, I ask that you pay it forward.
[00:03:49] Please share or have a conversation with another man about something you have heard on this show and tell him to check us out. It's how we grow this community and help more men on their unique paths to freedom. Now let's dive in with Locke Kelly and using effortless mindfulness to shift into Freedom Locke.
[00:04:08] I wanna thank you so much for being here on this walk. Thanks for joining us today. Thank you so much, Luke. Great to be here. You've been a leading mind in mindfulness, uh, I guess, no pun intended, for quite some time now, and I was wondering if, not necessarily from your credential side of things, but if you could share with everybody a little bit of how this journey began for you, meaning perhaps a turning point or one of those key moments that led you towards this path that has now been a lifelong journey for you.
[00:04:40] Loch: Sure. Two very short stories come to mind. So first one might be of interest, actually starts with sports. I was an athlete who loved getting into the flow, uh, the zone, but I didn't even know what it was called. I was 14, I was playing, happened to be playing ice hockey goalie, and I was listening to a sports broadcast of a football game, and the sports announcer said he's got eyes in the back of his head.
[00:05:09] And I said, well, it's not exactly eyes in the back head, but I think I know what that is. You literally like open your awareness. So I started intentionally doing this thing where I kind of opened my peripheral vision and then I didn't stop there. I kind of keep going around opening my awareness to this field and then drop into my body.
[00:05:31] So I'm not looking out of my small mind in this subject. Object scanning for danger. And I'm not even looking from a mindful witness that's kind of a detached observer. Literally inhabiting and interconnecting. So I started doing this and then one game, one of my friends came up and said, man, that was great.
[00:05:52] You played so great. How did you do that? And I said, you really wanna know? And then I kind of went through that and he kind of like, oh, cool man. And he walked away. So, but then one of the seniors on the team came the next practice and like threw me a book. Said here, kid, read this. And it was Zen and the art of archery.
[00:06:11] So it kind of took me from kind of a regular way of just being in, growing up in New Jersey to kind of getting this introduction to Zen. Cuz as I read that, it was like, oh my God, that's exactly the best times of my life. This is why I play sports. Yeah. This is the greatest thing. And it's not just sports, it's these other.
[00:06:33] Dimensions, what is this? And there's a culture and a system that values it, and so I started to dive in and become interested there. I ended up the next year doing TM at 15 with a friend's brother, older brother, and then continued to play sports, you know, through college and stuff like that. But mm-hmm also, then my freshman year, my father developed brain cancer.
[00:07:00] In his left lobe of his brain. He was an engineer, so it was very much changed his personality. He became kind of a loving, more open, you know, right-brained guy who, my girlfriend came to the door and he was like, oh my God, looks so good to see you. And And he had been more of a reserved person before that.
[00:07:20] Yeah. So he ended up getting a little better. He was about ready to go back to work and certainly developmentally when I had come home mid-year, he was bringing his workbooks to me. So he was back to a kindergarten level working his way back up. So here I was, a young man just becoming a man to my father, and now he was the child coming back to.
[00:07:48] You know, bringing me his workbooks. And so what happened then very briefly is that he passed away. At the end of that year, he had another aneurysm, and that spring I was walking outta the library at college and was like a cold, beautiful evening. But I had not found anyone to talk to about the trauma and the loss and the grief, and I just, Kind of was like, oh my God, you know, this is so heavy.
[00:08:18] And tried to go to the psychology department there, but it was like a Freudian analyst who just took notes and I was like, alright, that's enough of that. And none of my friends had really experienced that loss at that age. Yeah. I walked out and I just heard this, I don't know if you can take that at much longer.
[00:08:38] And I kind Who just said that it sounded like me, but it sounded like something. Like a voice within me or part of me. And I kind of looked up and when I looked up, my awareness kind of opened up like to the night sky. And all of a sudden I was like, whoa. And I went out to this feeling of kind of moving beyond this contracted sense of small self and this open and felt like I connected to some resource that felt like it, relieved that, and then it felt.
[00:09:11] Almost like embraced and interconnected, and I didn't make it into a religious thing or anything. I just felt like, wow, that's like the sports thing. Mm-hmm. What is that? But now it's with psychology. Mm-hmm. So those two stories, I think, kind of made me think at that time. I said, okay, here I am. I'm in the middle of college.
[00:09:31] What am I gonna do with my life? What's most important? Well, let's do this. Let's find out what in the world these things are. Yeah, because they bring me relief and joy and
[00:09:42] Luke: connection. It's amazing to hear. Those types of experiences or what it is that you were connecting to at such a young age? Mm-hmm.
[00:09:51] Right. For myself, it took many decades before I got into this work. A lot of the people that I've, I've had the honor of being able to serve and work with typically the same, right. We're we're approaching into maybe that early side of middle age when we start to discover the possibilities of what this could be, and I guess I'm kind of curious what you've reflected on as was either.
[00:10:13] I'd like to say already awake in you. Mm-hmm. Or it's almost maybe what you hadn't forgotten that some of us maybe forget that predisposed you Yes. To being able to open up in that way to have an experience like that so young. Yeah. I mean,
[00:10:30] Loch: when I ask a lot of people, they'll find little experiences like that throughout childhood, even if they've had a very traumatic childhood or Sure.
[00:10:37] If they've had a very. Kind of bland, normally semi-successful, right? They'll still find, but they didn't lead to kind of that following of it. Yeah. So I think what you're saying is so important because the type of mindfulness that I ended up being interested in that really kind of brought me the greatest joy and relief is called Effortless Mindfulness.
[00:11:01] So it's more of a Tibetan style mindfulness that's kind of builds on the conventional mindfulness. But then, Goes a few more steps beyond, but one of its unique premises is that you're remembering to remember, in other words, that the peace, the love, the freedom, the clarity, the optimal sense of self is already here within us and it's just uncovering or discovering, or remembering.
[00:11:34] That it's not like other skills or knowledge where we need to use our mind to read a lot of books or develop a skill called meditation that will lead us to a cleaner mind. It's literally just like in those experiences, just opening up to find a dimension that's subtler and more spacious, but more pervasive.
[00:12:00] Mm-hmm. And more interconnected. And that when that becomes like moving from a background where it's hidden by our thoughts and feelings and search outside for pleasure and success, when we find that sense of being, then that's the goal of what we're looking for in all the outer, because there's a sense of wellbeing and bliss and.
[00:12:25] Clarity that's already here within us. Right. So that's the amazing thing
[00:12:29] Luke: about that. You know, it's interesting cuz you, you brought up two different aspects of this that are, what I have found and are is difficult to articulate as part of what this podcast is, is seeking to do is to articulate. Some of this is two different paradoxes.
[00:12:43] One is that remembering and it's, I frame it as a paradox because it's. We wanna figure things out. We think we need to go learn. We need to study and figure out what are the actions that lead us to this, and that actually can create more of the gyrations that keep us from dropping into. What I think you're speaking of.
[00:13:07] Right. And then that other paradox or, or not necessarily paradox, but certainly part of the, you know, the polarity, the duality that we struggle with is this being and doing. There's so many different ways that we can enter into that conversation, but I, I think what I'm, you know, getting at, at this point though is what is it that allows us to almost release from the.
[00:13:29] I need to know all the steps. I need to know what am I looking for? I need like all of the things that our mind thinks we need. How do we release your, your language unhook from that so that we can actually recognize this incredible energy and resource and gift that is always just kind of waiting for us to find our way back to it.
[00:13:52] Yeah, I mean, and
[00:13:53] Loch: this is something, even those in different contemplative or. Meditative or spiritual traditions have used all these words like, let go, surrender, turn it over, find the what you're seeking, let go the seeker. So what I've been interested in sounds like same as you, is what is the real practical or at least one way.
[00:14:18] So the way that I do it is, is not the only way, the best way, but it is very specific way in and. It has to be experienced, but simply trying to put it into languages that developmentally we are dependent children as human beings that, you know, learn to then internalize and become independent and create this sense of using our cognitive mind, going to school and being able to say, that's a red light, that's a green light.
[00:14:49] Don't do this, don't do that. Remember to do this. And then we create this ego function. That becomes an ego identity. So it becomes a mental sense of self. That's kind of parts of us talking to each other within us, but it's all very thought based. And then we get rewarded by doing well in that world, you know, by being smart or you know, achieving a goal in the world.
[00:15:18] And then we get some relative pleasure. From that. So the first thing is kind of having a little different map that says, okay, that's good. So some spiritual traditions start with renunciation. You know, you renounce worldly goods and you say, that's bad. You know, don't crave and don't be so aversive and join a monastery or go to cave and no family life, no sex, no pleasure.
[00:15:46] Don't eat afternoon, stay up all night. So there's something. That's a little extreme in that. And the thing is, it's not about that. Those things, right in balance, if they're not addictive or destructive are really kind of fun, they're fine, you know? Mm-hmm. Good things about that. However, that isn't who we are and they won't give us a deeper sense of wellbeing, and there's a higher level of functioning that is more like a flow state or being in the zone.
[00:16:20] That we know from things we love to do that. Mm-hmm. The flow state is described as dropping out of the self-referencing mind and yet accessing higher functioning from an immediate type of awareness. So what is that awareness? Where is it and what can know it? And that's why that these glimpse practices that are part of this tradition, They aren't long meditations.
[00:16:48] They're literally learning how to find the feeling of the awareness and like unhooking it and letting it drop from head to embodiment to more of a deeper heart space or subtler dimension than opening up to the more interconnected and spacious and then kind of coming back to include everything. So there's a almost like an open mind where we go the other way, we come to thinking, Then awareness Denters goes to seeing.
[00:17:18] Mm-hmm. And the denters goes to hearing. So it's still pretty understandable. Mm-hmm. But we're just not looking from a mindful witness at our breath. We're literally realizing that consciousness is within our whole system and even feels like it's around. So we drop to hearing and then open to the space in which sound is coming, and then we feel this more remaining open.
[00:17:42] We come back to include. Our whole physical system at a subtler level that includes, you know, space, energy and physical dimensions. But now this more spacious awareness is primary, and from here you can move your hand or use thought, but you're more in a sense of being, and that just that simple little map, which is kind of a just a.
[00:18:11] Five minute map that can be drawn a little differently. And then just learning how to do this is not any harder than learning how to do conventional mindfulness. Mm-hmm. That watches your breath and doing this. But it takes you to this open eyed ability to do these glimpses, which are like three minutes to 10 minutes in the midst of your day and get right back, go right into a meeting or something.
[00:18:40] And feel like, wow. I don't know how I knew to say that, but I felt relaxed. I felt calm and I just was funny and everyone seemed to understand it, but I wasn't trying so hard and I wasn't so focused on, don't forget to say that. Mm. So this ability to know that there is this other dimension and it's already installed.
[00:19:03] Yeah.
[00:19:04] Luke: A comment and then I wanna come back to something you. Created a glimpse of that. I wanna kind of pull on that thread for a moment. But what I experienced and I think was a shifting point in my journey with mindfulness practice meditation, was when I was able to start to drop in moving down, as you said.
[00:19:24] So it was not only from what felt like an awareness looking out, but instead starting to incorporate these other felt senses within me. And so I'd used to describe this to others who I might have been teaching, like the very, very starting points of some meditation to was that over time I got to the point where I could take just three deep breaths and I can feel that presence and that spaciousness that you're describing.
[00:19:53] And I can feel it throughout my body and even beyond into a, a, like a space that's beyond the, the body. But it begins with the felt sense within my body and. By getting more. In that instance, somatically connected, which is only one piece of what you were describing, but somatically connected, allowed me to begin to unhook from the thoughts that were racing from me being over-focused like, I gotta find it, I gotta look for it.
[00:20:19] Where, where do I go next? It allowed that part of me to relax, and then it's this different sensation that's. It's difficult to put into words, but it's this felt sensation, this felt experience. That's almost like you can feel the vitality, you can feel the aliveness that's then within you. Yeah, and I think what, what I wanted to come back to kind of as I walk through that you mentioned.
[00:20:45] That part of what you're connecting to is also this deeper wellbeing mm-hmm. That exists within us. And I, I wanted to ask you to comment further on this, because among those that tune into the show, among those that I, I have a tendency to work more often with are men right now that have come into the early middle age or in the middle age, and they're finding that.
[00:21:05] The fulfillment or the happiness or the satisfaction that they would've expected to have by now of checking the boxes. Right. We checked the boxes. Society said at this point, that equals happiness. It doesn't. Mm-hmm. And they know there's something more, but it's a total different orientation now because they've come at life from the doing standpoint more often than not.
[00:21:25] Vastly more often than not. And what they're searching for this sense of being, this deeper wellbeing that's there is almost foreign. To them. Yeah. And so I'm wondering if you could comment on, you know, that deeper sense of wellbeing and you know, particular to your, you know, your own experience both with clients as well as your own experience as a man of what, what that is that you were able to connect to.
[00:21:51] Because again, one more comment on it is that I think the fear, I know it's a fear that I had faced, is that if I move more into that space, I. Am I getting anything done? Like how am I gonna keep doing all the things that I need to do in this world and keep the, the money coming in and keep doing all the, you know, the things I've gotta get motivated to do.
[00:22:07] Loch: So, you know, similarly with your coaching, having been a psychotherapist for 30 years in New York City and coming from this meditation and psychotherapy world and being known, I mean, I worked with some of the most successful people in all fields. In the world there. And that often would be the reason they came.
[00:22:31] Yeah, it's, I've got all my ducks in a row. I've even got my health, my family, my job, my success, my toys, my, you know, yeah. And I'm miserable, or I'm just confused, or what's next? Or who am I? And that's, The lucky people who Yeah. Who figure it out early. Yeah. Others who, who kinda get two steps forward, one step back, three steps forward, three steps back, and have real success.
[00:22:58] But because of their normal ups and downs of life, never quite get to their picture of ideal success. They can go on for their whole life and kind of get an inkling of it, but then, oh, I gotta go back to the search. Yeah, and the struggle and the, so often, you know, with meditation, the first practices are calming practices called shaah, peaceful abiding.
[00:23:23] And that is what scares people off, is that if, if you do that too long or make that the main practice, actually one of my Tibetan teachers, the son of my main teacher, came to the United States a bunch of years ago and he goes, Why is everyone here doing stupid meditation? And what meant by that? I said, well, you probably should call it sauna meditation or something like that cuz people don't like being called stupid.
[00:23:48] But what he meant is that is often where people get stuck. Yeah. So that's not the style he taught or I teach. So I use often the question to people, okay, what do you do that you love with your eyes open in your free time? What happens then? How do you feel? Are you mentally worried when you're surfing or dancing or climbing a mountain or gardening or playing a sport or playing music or listening to music?
[00:24:23] You go out of, so the the flow state, which is described by Chick Maha, who's a researcher, says that you let go of self-referencing and yet, You access the 10,000 hours of whatever you've done to have that memory and that functioning, and you optimally function. So obviously the, the one that's often used is high speed sports, you know, like ski racing or something.
[00:24:48] You can't think that fast. Yeah. To do that, you have to go to the next level of functioning and it's a great joy if you do it well and you enjoy it. So that is where we're going. We're going toward optimal. Functioning from a non worried, non grasping, non shame-based, non fear, motivated being that being is doing.
[00:25:15] And that if you can find that, not just in the things you love and your leisure, but find the feeling of that. One of the meditations glimpse practices I do is called the memory door. Where have people. Bring that to mind. That time could be a peak experience or something they just did last weekend. Go there, visualize it, see it, smell it, taste it in your mind.
[00:25:39] Eyes closed. Use your imagination. Enter that. Feel what's happening. The place, the qualities of joy and and functioning. And since now, drop the visual. Now even drop the qualities and feel who you are. Who is there, what was revealed to be the one who's able to experience that dimension of bliss and optimal functioning and is that being here now?
[00:26:09] And so once you get a feeling, it's not one of the five senses that feels it, it's a presenting as you, you know, presentencing or the feeling of being. That when you start to move and do, you can lose it cuz the doer or the thinker or the mm-hmm. Functioner starts taking over. But if you can start to kind of slowly get a feeling while sitting and then start typing and then you lose it, you notice it come back, you can start.
[00:26:41] So this awakening, I feel is the next natural stage of human development. Yeah. What
[00:26:49] Luke: that. Kind of connected me to is this sense of, or, or additional language of what you just described, is that it gives us the ability or it, it reminds us of what we already have capable within us. Mm-hmm. To literally be in our experiences.
[00:27:09] And I say it that way because I'm sure how many people listening can think of the experiences that they've had where they're almost just kind of going through the motions. Right? That, that idea of, well, yeah, sure, I, I did the gardening, or I mowed the lawn, or, you know, whatever the task is. And they barely remember it because they weren't really there.
[00:27:28] The mind was, was elsewhere. It was wandering, it was daydreaming, it was doing whatever. And when we have that ability to be in the experience and to bring more and more of our presence, that felt sense as well as the senses. To really kind of soak up and be with the experience that we happen to be in at that moment, that deeper wellbeing emerges.
[00:27:54] And from, I'm, again, please correct me if, if you have a different perspective or a different way of saying this, but that to me it's that deep wellbeing emerges, almost reminding us of the essence, the true nature of who we are. It feels like we're more in harmony with the experience we're having at that time.
[00:28:12] And it also has to me, like the added effect of when we're that much more present to our lives in that way, in that richer way we become and feel more fulfilled because we're quite literally filling up our memory and our presence and our energy with more of what actually happened is opposed to or is happening, is opposed to just going through an exercise, going through an experience and only remembering 10% of it.
[00:28:41] Instead remembering 90% of it because of how present we might have been.
[00:28:45] Loch: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So you're describing kind of, you know, the other way that people try to rest their, their driven mind is by daydreaming. So like, mowing the lawn and daydreaming or spacing out, or it isn't thinking, but it isn't, uh, isn't meditating and it isn't being present isn't mm-hmm.
[00:29:05] Presence. So that feeling of. Inhabiting and presencing or being, and the key to that is that it gives you a capacity to be with other parts of you that may be upset or traumatized or grieving or worried or driven. So one of the things I combined with this kind of advanced, yet simple, effortless mindfulness practice is.
[00:29:35] Some of this more contemporary psychotherapy model of the psyche, which is called parts based systems. So Mont, Dick Schwartz, internal Family Systems. Some of these I taught with
[00:29:51] Luke: Boy Voice Dialogue with Hollen cider stone. Yeah, it's great voice. Phenomenal work.
[00:29:56] Loch: So that movement, it seems like a small thing, but if you move from, I am upset to.
[00:30:05] I am aware of feeling upset. I'm aware of a part of me that's upset. As soon as you say, I'm aware, oh, there's, you're not denying it. I'm upset and I'm, and I'm gonna do something. Oh, I'm aware that a part of me, there's a part of me. Where's the part of me that's upset? That's right here. All right. Can I be with that part of me that's upset for maybe a good reason?
[00:30:28] Let's find out. So that move is a, like a mindful move. That is one of the key moves. Mm-hmm. Is and, but not what's called spiritually bypassing by saying, oh, I'm not upset, I'm fine. You know, rather, these are being, those are called polarized parts, like I'm upset, no, I'm not upset. I can go through it. So now the question is, okay.
[00:30:53] Are you aware of both those parts? Oh, the part that's upset and the part that's trying to tell me I'm not upset. Oh, wow. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. So how do you feel toward both those parts? Well, I wish they weren't here. Okay. That's another part. I wish it wasn't here. So how do you feel about those? That part?
[00:31:14] Oh, I see. Right. Oh, well, I feel like it's trying to help me. You know, that part's trying to help me, but it doesn't know that there's another option and all of a sudden you have this bigger capacity of presence, or what I call wake awareness or open-hearted awareness that. Is greater than and connected to something that feels like it's supported and then is not denying whatever's arising.
[00:31:44] So halfway there is kind of a neutral, mindful witness, so you'll hear, hear the definition. Mindfulness is as non-judgmentally observing contents. Coming and going. So what we do in effortless mindfulness is literally realize, oh well that mindness is apart. It's also part, yeah. Who's aware of that? And all of a sudden you go to this spacious and pervasive inhabiting that has this compassion that even if you are really upset and your adrenaline and cortisol is like, what do you mean a part of me is upset?
[00:32:18] I'm like, Like my whole body is going like, you're like, okay, sweetheart, it's okay. Yeah. You're, I'm with you. I'm here. Yeah. Yeah. But it's every part of this. Yeah, it's every part of this body, but I'm not only this body, I'm this consciousness. Mm. That's within and within like a wave in the ocean, right. Of what feels like, you know, this life appearing in these different dimensions.
[00:32:45] So that. It's very practical. Yeah. Psychological, those few little tools and that map. Helped tremendously to add to people's way of being.
[00:33:03] Luke: Just wanted to throw a quick comment in here because if you haven't been here before, I've spoken quite a bit about acknowledging the different parts that we have within us. It's also been referred to as parts work, and in fact, I have a whole episode devoted to this coming up very shortly with Tim Corcoran publishes in the next few weeks, so do stay tuned for that.
[00:33:22] Anyhow, one aspect of what Locke is speaking about here is really important for us to be able to acknowledge that there is a part of me that is upset and there is a part of me that isn't upset or as calm or as grounded even at this moment. This helps us begin to step back into a place of awareness.
[00:33:42] Instead of being stuck only in the perspective of just one part of us, when we're stuck in only one part of us, we lose a great deal of perspective and we lose leverage to be able to shift into more helpful states. We also lose a great deal of the total picture of who we are in this particular moment and experience.
[00:34:03] If you only play out the role of an angry or resentful man in any given situation, then you will leave the part of you that is loving, understanding, or grounding on the side. It's possible to actually hold all of these aspects, these parts of who you are in your awareness, so that instead of acting from a limited pattern or limited consciousness, you move forward from a place of greater awareness and intention.
[00:34:28] This is key if you don't wanna keep recreating old circumstances and results. If you want to create new experiences, new patterns, new conditions, then this is one avenue that's gonna help you immensely because the more of you meaning, the more you're able to hold of all of the many parts of you in your awareness, the more of you that you can access means the more choices you're gonna have in front of you, and the more likely you will choose consciously that which is gonna serve you best in those crucial moments.
[00:34:58] There's also one other really beneficial aspect to this. When we are experiencing something difficult, we're upset, we're disappointed, we're sad, we're angry. It is not about shutting this part down. It's not about ignoring or avoiding it. It's about creating space so that you can hold it and experience whatever this part needs to so that the experience can be processed, it can be seen, and it will not be cut short.
[00:35:26] We spoke about the importance of that in just our last conversation with Fish Fisher. You see, when we can step into the seat of awareness, we can see the many parts that make up the whole of who we are. We can acknowledge and support the parts of us that need it, especially in that moment, all without losing ourselves in only that one part, our perspective.
[00:35:49] Now, let's rejoin our walk with Locke.
[00:35:59] I wanna kind of tie a little bit of this together with the weave that we just wove through this conversation because so many, many that are tuning in, you guys have heard me before, say that we have these different parts and to be aware that we're actually the one in the center. Right, so we're that, aw, you know, who are you?
[00:36:17] If you're aware of all these parts, then what's aware? And there's this awareness that that's at the center. But the piece that I just connected more deeply to, that you illuminated is also because of what we were already describing back in, I'll use the word presencing, meaning that that felt sense of being able to be more fully present, aware of being in the experiences that we're in is because of that presence.
[00:36:42] What we're also tapping into is that the whole of who we are is big enough to hold all of these individual smaller parts. And when we continue to build that remembering muscle of being present to all that we actually are that fuller sense of awareness that we actually are connected to. We continue to recognize just how much capacity we have.
[00:37:12] To hold the challenging and painful and traumatic parts and experiences that we've been through in our lives and not get identified with them or overly attached to them, and we can recognize all of the other parts of who it is that we are. And that when we can see, you know, to me it's, it's anytime you can, you know, you can see more of the full landscape.
[00:37:36] You're not just maybe trapped behind just a couple of trees, but instead you can look out and see the vastness of a given landscape. To me, there's this beautiful serenity, this piece that just takes over. It's this awe that sets in and what I'm kind of connecting to in the way you've described this, or at least what's dropping in because of it.
[00:37:54] Is the more that we can kind of see just how big of a capacity we actually are to hold all of this, that same type of peace, that same types of awe can actually set in for us. Yeah. Because we can see, right. That's the way that I just experienced that and started connect things, and I'm just kind of curious.
[00:38:11] Yeah. That's
[00:38:11] Loch: very visceral and I would only add in this effort view is that. Moving from, yeah, you can either go, as you say, in, it's either within you, the kingdom of heaven is within, but even within means, not inside, but it means the subtlest dimension that's within everything. Or you can step back and then come back in.
[00:38:35] Yeah, so either way it's both inside and out, both and. And then the key is it's actually not the next move in. This is the view. From the landscape or space or holding to what's called ocean and wave called same taste. So it's not that we're holding the parts, it's that actually we're the ocean and parts are made of who we are and there's not two things.
[00:39:01] Mm-hmm. So this is the non-dual feeling. So we're not like the bigger, higher self who's, you know, trying to feel good. Toward the small part that's in pain. It's like we're the bigger ocean self that's arising as a painful wave that we're not identified, but we're not separate and holding separate. This is why, you know, the word non-dual is used rather than oneness or rather than Right.
[00:39:33] Is it's, it is two. It is a part that's in pain and yeah, subtle dimension's, not in pain. It's never been in pain and. Yet they're not to. There's some feeling of that. Like you say, when you move to presencing, you're feeling the pain from within and the holding space that's made of the same, and it's kind of this, it can't overwhelm who you are, but it doesn't kick you out into a witness consciousness or what I call the witness protection program.
[00:40:06] That's a good one. Feel like, okay, I'm spiritually aware of. What's going on in me, but I'm disembodied.
[00:40:13] Luke: Yeah. Yeah. I'm not allowing myself to be in it. Yeah, that's right. I also wanna come back and say, with all of this, meaning when we awaken to this in ourselves, we awaken to this awake energy, to this awake awareness that is within us.
[00:40:29] Give me a few of the more, let's call it practical benefits, applications of this. Meaning if I tap into this, how is this gonna maybe support. My relationships, relationships, sense of purpose, you know, these are some of the things that are most prevalent for a lot of people out there right now. If I make this a path that helps me connect to this space within me, what are those changes I'm gonna see maybe in relationships first, and then maybe we can talk a little bit about a sense of purpose as well.
[00:40:57] Loch: Sure. I mean, the first two we, the benefits we kind of named, which are that you kind of get relieved from that drivenness of never enough. And you get a sense of being or presence that then you can feel at least in the things you love, like a flow. So you feel that it's being sitting still, but it's also being doing.
[00:41:22] So that's the first. And then the second is, oh, it's also this capacity that has a relationship to what I've been repressing. So internal relationship to. Trauma, grief, any kind of feeling, particularly for those identified as male or men mm-hmm. Who grew up in culture is, is just, you know, rub some dirt on it, get back in there, you know, which is what I heard so many times.
[00:41:49] Like many years. Yeah. There's no crying and baseball, you know, like, so this kind of, you know, just get on with it, muscle through. That is important to be in a relationship with another human being intimately. Even as a friendship, you have to be vulnerable. So in order to be vulnerable, it can't be just invulnerable.
[00:42:10] And then, uh, I'm outta control. I feel terrible. I'm overwhelmed. This subtles dimension as primary awake awareness, open-hearted awareness, presencing lets you feel safe. So there's a safety in that. And then from there you are able to feel safe enough to listen to somebody else and to realize there that there's two, two of you in the relationship and the other person's not you.
[00:42:40] So by realizing that you realize that they're gonna have a different perspective and they're gonna have a different view of the same situation. They have a different history and they have different parts of themselves that they're bringing from childhood. That are getting triggered by something that you're like, well, what are you talking about?
[00:43:00] I'm just asking you to, you know, you said you'd take out the garbage and just reminding you, and they're like, don't you know? And then, then your own getting triggered in a relationship because you know, certainly intimate relationship, romantic relationships, partnerships, marriage, whatever, that you bring your whole family history to that and you bring your.
[00:43:24] It can be a healing container if you have the capacity to listen and then mirror and empathize and validate the other person for what they're feeling and distinguish that. Well, I feel like you are yelling at me. Okay. So what I'm hearing you say is that when I reminded you take out the garbage that you said you would take out, you.
[00:43:52] Felt like I was yelling at you. Is that right? Yes. Okay. You know, so then that's all I needed. I just needed you to hear that I was feeling that way. I don't know if you were, but Yeah. But that it felt that way. And I want you to understand, I have feelings, even if it's not a fact on your side of the street, so that, you know, kind of strange.
[00:44:19] Learning process of feelings and parts that get triggered and validating and meeting without having it to be either or. It's a
[00:44:29] Luke: great way of explaining when we go into this work and we begin to be able to hold space in a manner that allows these different parts of us that have maybe been repressed or tucked away or ignored, or the parts of us that we've leaned into because they protect us and they keep us safe.
[00:44:48] That when we can learn to be with them and understand where is it that maybe they've come from, or what was it that they were trying to help us with? What need were they trying to fulfill by emerging in our life and how maybe it is that they did serve us for whatever period of time, and we can get present to those so that at any given time we can acknowledge and be with that part, but we also can be with that grander awareness, that grander presence that's within us as well.
[00:45:15] Now when a situation arises in our lives that normally would've triggered one of those parts that would've had them, you know, get, get angry or get frustrated, or whatever, we don't get triggered. We can see it for what it is, and we can be present to whatever's going on in us. When we, we get more skilled at that, we get more effective at that.
[00:45:37] It allows us to then start holding that space. With the person that we're in relationship with at that moment, be it a, a friend, family, spouse, partner, or what have you. And I think the reason why I wanted to connect it to this is that to me, well, not even just to me, I mean, how many studies and, and one in particular that have come out and talked about just the vital importance that relationships are to our longevity, to our happiness, to our health, and for us to be in and improve those relationships.
[00:46:05] We gotta start with the relationship here, right? We start with the relationship within so that we can be more present to those that are, you know, out of us. And I guess I wanted to come back to that in the sense that, I know you've also described some of these phases as waking up, waking in, and then waking out.
[00:46:23] And I was wondering if we just have a few comments on that before we wrap up because I. To me, part of what I, I've gotten out of hearing you talk about some of this to me, I was introduced to the, the idea of the Mobius Strip from Parker Palmer's writing. Right? And so that idea for everybody, that idea that what is within ultimately will loop without what is without, will ultimately come within.
[00:46:43] And it's beautiful kind of infinity loop that turns in on itself like a ribbon. And to me, the way you described waking in, waking out gives a really wonderful representation. This isn't just work that we get to do within and then sit within. It's meant to be brought out into our lives in all of these fluid ways.
[00:47:02] Loch: Yeah, that's right. The first move, or you know, experience on the map of waking up from and waking to this awake consciousness that's subtle. That's spacious and pervasive. Getting a feel for what that is directly and immediately is really the method. That I find, I find that long meditation periods can actually deconstruct the ego.
[00:47:29] There's some studies that show that 40% of people who just go to a five day mindfulness retreat will have a negative experience because the method is deconstructing the ego and therefore the ego defenses, and then the flooding happens, uh, from the unconscious. So this accessing what in internal family systems.
[00:47:53] Is called Self with a capital S is actually what makes it a different healing agent. So accessing this awake consciousness. Only then can you who you were before you were this thinker. I think therefore I am. Then you wake up from it. Whether you go within or open up to this spacious, subtler, pervasive dropdown heart.
[00:48:21] View or presencing that feels supported and safe so that you can then be with and feel that isn't just in the battery of this body and this little mind that cannot bear. So a small ego identity, thought based identity cannot live a fully intimate life that you have to upgrade. We have to find this.
[00:48:49] Unfortunately, it's here and. Currently having, you know, some of these more esoteric practices are now available to access it in the direct way rather than having to join a monastery. So finding that waking up from, and then to the awake awareness and then waking within so that there is this relationship to being embodied and grounded and what this teacher Han calls inter being.
[00:49:20] So it's interconnectedness that begins to move toward waking out, which is being starts doing. And that's a kind of a learning curve there cuz you're gonna pop back up to the old doer who's gonna have a common, are you sure you wanna do it this way? Cuz I can help you out. You know? So then you just say, thank you, thank you for sharing, and you enter it.
[00:49:45] 12 step program of put down the first think instead of put down the first drink, you trust that you're at a higher level. That thought is available and it's also being utilized, but you don't have to create a thinker so that you can then begin to live from this more open-hearted flow and then be less reactive in a relationship and be more responsive.
[00:50:12] Just take that pause. Of feeling the hurt of somebody. What do you mean? And you're like, hold on, breathe. Find the capacity of the self, and now be with yourself. And now be curious about what, say that again. You know? Or what do you mean when you say that? Or, yeah. You know, so you start to be curious, which becomes a big word rather than critical.
[00:50:38] Yeah. What
[00:50:39] Luke: even also just jumped out at me is that as we wake up, To that presence. Right. What you described this before, I know you described this in your writing, is that we're also waking up to that feeling of spaciousness, that space that's within us. That's certainly a, a big piece of what I, I connected to and have connected to, and that by connecting to that spaciousness, we also gain the ability to be more spacious with the experiences, the events that are unfolding.
[00:51:09] It's one of those things that when we're going through life and in relationships or the this pace of work nowadays that we get lost in the supposed urgency or immediacy of things and we don't connect to that pause, that sacred pause. But if we can and we put down that first think, love that put down that first think we have that ability to reconnect to this awake awareness.
[00:51:37] And by doing so, we can use that curiosity in the space that's been created so that we can try to see it more for what it is and meet the person where they are and where they're coming from, not personalize it. And whatever we need to work through, we can wake in and kind of check in with that, but we can be with them in a much more productive and effective way that supports them as well as supports us.
[00:52:03] Loch: Yeah. The feeling of vulnerability, discomfort, and pain. So we're only a biological animal for only body Mind. Then somebody goes, right, right, right. And we're like, You know, survive, you know, defend, fight, flight, freeze. Which one are you, what are we gonna do? So that capacity to be open, like, and that's kind of the, the new thing like that people say, you know, open-minded space, spacious, but it literally has to be a feeling.
[00:52:36] Yeah. That it's the ground of being is first. Space and awareness, and then energy and then form, and then thought is just one of the energetic components of thoughts, feeling sensations, but the intelligence is in the awareness base. Knowing that's like flow. That's the big move that is like, well, I've been spending all this time trying to be smarter and faster and more knowledgeable.
[00:53:08] Well, good for that. Back in, it's in the computer. All programs are welcome now upgrade to the flow consciousness, and initially it feels just peaceful and open and then it feels kind of fun like a kid on the first day of summer vacation. When you feel it, you feel like I can do anything, but I don't have to do anything.
[00:53:34] And then you gotta start to get motivated, not by fear or drivenness, but by. Relatedness and play and motivated, like, well, what do I really wanna do with my life? Oh, yeah. So even purpose and meaning have to come after being. Mm. That's kind of one of my things. You can't find meaning and purpose when, if you're in your head because it, it's driven by, by some shoulds or in, you know, conditioning or some real smart trying to figure it out.
[00:54:09] Yeah. Once you go to being, first of all, that's the 50% of meaning, and then purpose becomes who am I and what's my particular part of the team? Yeah. What do I do well and what can I contribute? And it's not the same for everyone. Yeah. You know, it's just, you'll find your, your niche, you know? I
[00:54:30] Luke: like the frame that you, you offered in there.
[00:54:33] That this is an upgrade. It's an upgrade to our operating system. And the beauty is actually, it's, it's already there. It's just remembering the upgrade's actually already installed. But what it does is that when we go through this and we retap, we, we reconnect to that upgrade. It allows us to gain so much more access to the potentiality, the fullness of who it is that we are.
[00:54:57] And that can be using all of the wisdom that you have brought in. It can be. The recognition of the very, very unique gifts that you have that otherwise maybe you know, past shoulds and should nots and conditioning have prevented you from being able to see, we gain so much more access to the fullness of who we are.
[00:55:16] And you know, maybe if we close on this, to me that's a really beautiful way to think about. Remembering our way home, you know? And so if you could even just comment on what that sense of home is, cuz I, I'm, you know, I'm almost feeling that in the, the image, the, the picture that you started to paint of what we gain access to.
[00:55:34] So that feeling
[00:55:34] Loch: of home is that presenting or that kind of decentering dropping, opening and including, and then including the different parts of us that have been striving and realizing that they have good intentions. They can be part of the team. So you don't need to get rid of the ego or fight the ego or put it down or have it retire or be replaced.
[00:55:59] Say We need your help. It's just you're like a kid sitting in the kitty seat thinking you're need to drive and you don't need to drive. Cuz we already, it's a self-driving vehicle with a capital S. We can keep going. So let me just try this one. Glimpse practice. You know, we've been talking about this kind of driver, or this could be called a problem solver.
[00:56:22] It's part of us. That's what's going on here. What's going on out there? What's the problem? So I don't have to fight, flight, freeze, scan for danger. So what if that problem solver could relax and you had a map that said when it relaxes, it's not empty, it's not scary. There's actually this awake consciousness that's alert and being.
[00:56:44] So then I were to ask the simple inquiry and see what happens. So what's here now when there's no problem to solve.
[00:56:58] So just letting the problem solver
[00:57:03] relax and then feel
[00:57:09] this kind of alert, non-thought based.
[00:57:16] Clear, open, embodied
[00:57:24] being from which you can attend to any issues or problems. So we're upgrading, we're not denying, we're just wondering what's here when that small problem solver. Just goes into the background is is available when needed.
[00:57:49] And so now you can get a feeling. You start to get a feeling and there may be a little disorientation before you get the reorientation, but we know this feeling. But the ma amazing thing is it's this far away and that we can familiarize with it once we. Access it and then we can start to move our hand or talk or walk.
[00:58:15] Great. And relate.
[00:58:19] Luke: Fuck. I wanna thank you for that practice. I wanna thank you for being here with us and just all of the exploration, the adventuring you did with us on, on in this topic and uh, on this theme today. I appreciate so much you being here to share that with you on this walk audience.
[00:58:33] Loch: Great.
[00:58:33] That's beautiful. Thanks, Luke. Really enjoyed meeting you and, and sharing this with your. Friends and everyone listening.
[00:58:42] Luke: Yeah. Before we sign off, just a reminder, check out Lock Kelly and his work@lockkelly.org. Now that's lock l O c h, Kelly, k e l l y.org, where you can also just look up the Effortless Mindfulness Institute.
[00:58:58] And lastly, as I encourage you before, if you have received any benefit from this episode or this podcast in general, we ask that you pay it forward. Please share or have a conversation with another man about something you've heard on this show. Tell him to check us out. It's how we grow this community and it's how we help more men to discover their unique paths to freedom.
[00:59:17] And lastly, thanks to Billy Sam, Damian Felize, and the rest of the team at Pot for their work and helping produce on this walk.