005 - What Does It Take To Cultivate And Live Active Peace?
I’ve arrived at a place where central to my purpose in life is peace — when I connect to and from peace, I settle deeply into life, regardless of its perceived ups and downs.
However, in discussions with others, I often get the same response: “Okay, that sounds nice. But how do you get things done? Isn’t that a bit passive? Do you just bliss out and let stuff go by?”
If I read between the lines, those questions are really asking: Do you bypass life? Do you avoid problems? Do you get anything done?
Actually, peace can be quite active and is anything but a spiritually lazy way of being.
And I think my two guests know this quite well.
I’m very fortunate to be joined today by my dear friend and former colleague, Jenny Wiley, who’s been creatively and socially engaged for even longer than I’ve known her!
I’m also joined by Reggie Hubbard, whom I found through one of our recent guests, Aaron Kahlow (Episode #003). Reggie created Active Peace Yoga, and I think that phrase sums up the duality and intention of today’s walk.
In This Episode
(0:58) My journey to finding active peace in my own life
(09:44) Reggie’s lifelong mission to understand the idea of active peace
(14:02) Yoga, Buddhism, the anger of advocacy and marching on Congress
(19:32) How the death of her father set Jenny on the path to leading from the heart
(25:28) Does anger create peace?
(30:26) How shadow elements affect our own minds – and hinder our nation
(35:31) How Jenny deals with the discomfort that comes with searching for active peace
(40:06) Why Reggie believes in shining a light on our pain in order to heal from it
(47:56) Why Jenny holds a place for active compassion among active dialogue and active practice
(52:09) The role of faith in Jenny’s experience creating community
(56:39) Reggie’s favorite space-creating practices
(1:02:15) What do we do when we still don’t have perfect peace?
Notable Quotes
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“[In my mid-twenties] there was like the real part of myself that I really wasn't listening to, or even noticing that there was that part of me that I wasn't listening to. I was experiencing the detriment of not being integrated. I was so, so deeply depressed, really, really volatile. I decided, okay, so I'm gonna give myself a tagline and I'm just gonna go with it and try it on and see how it goes. And, and the tagline that I gave for myself was leading from the heart, because to me that meant that I wasn't operating out of that performative, like headspace, like I need to be something for someone else. It was leading from my heart centered place. And I started to see things kind of unfold from there.”
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“The short answer is that we have deluded ourselves into thinking that we're in this alone and we're not, we're in this together. So racism doesn't just hurt black people. Like racism hurts white people, sexism doesn't hurt just women. It hurts men too. Transphobia, all the things that we demonize about other people, it hurts us also. And so when we have the ability as teachers, leaders, but also as humans to see what we have in common, that gives us not only the energy, but the container to hold space with the difficult conversations.”
Our Guests
Reggie Hubbard is an RYT-500 certified yoga teacher and the founder of Active Peace Yoga. He has taught yoga to elected officials, activists and people from all walks of life. His practice is built on the idea that miracles happen when we commit to our personal peace and wellbeing.
Jenny Wiley specializes in creating group experiences for those who want to leverage the power of community. She currently serves as Community Manager for Zencity, which works exclusively with local governments to provide consulting services for data-driven community engagement.
Resources & Links
On This Walk
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Luke (00:00:26):
Welcome to On This Walk, a show about the winding journey of life in all its realness. I'm Luke Iorio. Please join me and my brilliant heart centered guests each week, as we look to navigate this journey more consciously and authentically. Uncovering how to tap back into that sense of connection with self, with soul and with something bigger than ourselves. Now let's go on this walk.
Welcome, welcome, welcome. And thank you for joining me on this walk. I'm your host, Luke Iorio. And today we're gonna take a pretty interesting walk here. You see, this is going to be, how do we cultivate? How do we tap into this notion of active peace within our lives? And I wanted to use that phrase specifically because one of the guests that we are gonna have here today, I think it presents this beautiful duality of something that is very much needed in our conversations needed in our society today.
And so I wanted to give you just a little bit of view of how I got to this conversation and a little bit of a backstory, so to speak, of the things that brought me here and why this conversation is pressing to me on a personal level, not just why I think it's pressing on a collective level. And so you guys have heard some of the shows already. So you've heard a little bit of the background and I had a very significant amount of momentum that was built up within my life, where I knew where it was that I was headed. And I had a pretty clear view of where that momentum tunnel was going to be able to take me, however that momentum tunnel also had quite a bit of tunnel vision in front of it because I could only see the specific future that I was headed towards.
And that future looked very much the way that, you know, I would say that society and culture and a lot of the conditioning that I've had in my life and experience in my life as we all do, uh, was propelling me towards. And I was just really very fortunate that along the way, I started to pick up a bit more awareness and started to broaden my view, broadened my perspective of where I may want to go with life, how it is that I wanted to interact with life and interact with community and society in a different way, how I wanted to potentially be different in my life and tap into things in a very, very different, more connected way. And those types of things, just to fill in that piece, is that those types of things that started to really broaden me more widely were things like getting onto the mindfulness path, mindfulness in terms of introducing, uh, somatics, uh, compassion-based work, equal empathy type of meditations, really started to be the thing that opened me up.
And that took what became a very interesting turn in my journey that led me into a much deeper relationship with my spirituality, uh, a path that honestly I was not paying a whole lot of attention to for a really long time. And so, as I got into that mindfulness practice and I got into more of a contemplative practice alongside of it, I recognized that the momentum that I had built up was taking a very, very significant toll on me. And it had been there all along that that cost that I was bearing all along in terms of, of where I was headed and what that was doing to me at a physical, emotional, mental, spiritual, social level, all of that was there, but I had tamped it down for so long. And so now I was becoming much more aware of it. And what I do recognize though is at that period of time, just before I started to broaden my lens was that it would've been really difficult for somebody to convince me of the cost that I was bearing because the path that I was headed down. If somebody wanted to convince me that I needed to widen my lens, if somebody wanted to convince me that I needed to go in a different direction, or I needed to take a look at these things within my life, I would've resisted because I would've felt that there was judgment that was being placed on me.
I would've felt like they were making me wrong in some way. I would've reacted and felt whether it be shame or blame or guilt, and I wouldn't have accepted that. It wouldn't have been a conversation that panned out or really made a dent in me. In fact, even the few things that were mentioned to me along the way, I know I did resist and I argued with, and if I had the chance to just kind of dismiss it and walk away from it, I would. And why wouldn't I? Because I couldn't see what it was they were saying, but this is true for a lot of what's going on in society right now, isn't it? Where we close off our minds and we close off our hearts to things that may be good for us and may be good for the collective, but we can't quite see it and feel it.
And somehow we've gotta break through that. And so for me, I had to go through that inner turmoil. I had to go through that challenge and even allow some of that emptiness to begin to creep in. And now I had a new problem because I was now aware of this change that was going on, this change that I now wanted in my life. I wanted to allow those emotions back in. I wanted to allow this change to occur, and I was starting to get connected more mindfully and more spiritually to this other path. My momentum tunnel was beginning to shift. I was beginning to take a new direction as I headed down that way. But the new problem was created. I was living in two different worlds because I had the world of who I used to be and how I used to be. So that's one world.
The other world was the one that was just vastly uncertain. It was something I'd never experienced before. And so I wasn't confident in it. I wasn't as sure, I had no experiences that would create that assurance of the new path I was taking. And so when you look at the first, the old world that was kind of holding on like gravity to me, you've got all the family, the friends, the colleagues, all people you know, in any which way, even social media sees you a certain way, and they react to you and invite you to stay in that place. That's one world. And then you've got that very, very uncertain world that you haven't yet built up the strength, built up the confidence, built up the assurance to more fully step into. Now, again, I was fortunate I had some support along the way. I sought some support along the way, and I was able to then to kind of break and shift more significantly into this new, deeper, more mindful, more spiritually based, more peaceful based heart-centered type of approach.
But now yet again, that's one world. And now there's this other world that I need to bring it back to, this other world that feels more disconnected. It feels more divisive. It feels more polarized. And yet I need to be able to bring this sense of peace back into that world so that these things can begin to be integrated. And frankly, that's what leads me here today because I wanted to connect with some individuals to go on this walk together of talking about how can we bring more of this sacred, this spiritual, this peacefulness, this centeredness of who it is that we can really truly be and feel like we are in sync with the truth of who we are, but how do we bring that into a world that still got a lot of old structures and old paradigms that are gonna fight tooth and nail to try to stay the same and to exist and stay within that world?
How do we begin to bring these things together once more? And how do we create a new place within that, this new space so that we can have these conversations. We're gonna end up just like I was, where I'm gonna push back on the new ways, the new perspectives, the new things, cause I'm not gonna wanna listen to that. So we've gotta create this new space that doesn't have the type of judgment. It doesn't have the blame and the shaming, the guilt to it, but how do we do that? I haven't figured it out yet. So instead I went out and I found some people who could help us. And that's where I was very fortunate that one of our prior guests back in Episode 3, Aaron Kahlow turned me on to the work of Reggie Hubbard and Reggie, who I would love to have enter stage left now at this time, is the founder of Active Peace Yoga. Reggie has been doing just some extraordinary work. He has been able to work down in DC. He's been working with political leaders, he's worked as an advocate and an activist, and yet he comes at things from this unbelievably grounded yogic center. And he talks about how can we build this foundation in the peacefulness of who we are and use it to engage in life and engage in community and engage in these unfolding conversations that are very difficult. And alongside Reggie, I couldn't help but then picture our next guest, Jenny Wiley and Jenny, please come on in. There we go, because Jenny is somebody who has been so centered in self for at least as long as I have known her and Jenny, to me as such a beautiful soul, you are so authentic in the way that you come across and it's that authenticity. It's that way of showing up and expressing that we wanna bring more of into the world today. And I know you've done it not only for yourself, but you do it in community as well. And so I thought that was gonna add another very, very important angle of this conversation that I wanted to get into today. And so with that, Reggie and Jenny, thank you guys so much for being on this walk.
Reggie (00:08:56):
Happy to be here.
Jenny (00:08:57):
Lovely. Yes, I will gladly go on this walk with you guys.
Luke (00:09:03):
Reggie, if I were to begin with you, I wanted to ask first and I'm gonna, I'm gonna stack a question or, or two here. Uh, first is this notion of active peace because I think it is such a wonderful phrase that talks to the energy of some stuff, that's uh, some very important energy that's needed right now in our time. And so as part of answering that, though I've gotta ask, one of two things, either you came, uh, straight out of the womb as like a monk and just like you were there, or there's a journey behind this idea of active peace, I'm guessing it's the latter. And so if you can give us a, a little bit of that backstory, so we understand how you're thinking and how your way of being even evolved to understand this notion of active peace.
Reggie (00:09:44):
Well, so the name of my teaching practice is called Active Peace. It's not like yoga with Reggie or meditate with Reggie, right? Because the notion of western parlance in Buddhist circles is very ego driven. And like I, as an individual, am tethered to the connective, like the wellbeing of the whole impacts my individuality and how I experience the world. Like that's a functional and foundational aspect with who I am in general, much less as an organizer. Luke, my native tongue emotionally was anger, and anger to be very forthright about it, because of the color of my skin and my gender. Like America's predicated on the destruction of black and brown people. And I am not only a black and brown person, but like I'm wicked smart. And so there's no place for unicorns like me in master culture. And so from an early age, there was a dissonance in my mind where I'm like, yo, why can't I just be? You know, why am I being called nigger on a playground?
Like, why, like, why? Like I'm six. Like I just wanna get on a seesaw like, why, like, why does that have to be like, you know, so there are all these like whys that in my head and there were no easy answers to, and so for the first half of my life, like, it was just the anger of the inability to be myself as myself and not deal with all this other drama. So then I, you know, Reggie, you'll never go to college. So anger propelled me to go, not only to college, but I was the first in my family to go to college and I went to Yale and majored in Existential Philosophy. So like you put that brooding sense with John Paul Sartre and Martin Heiddeger and you know, Søren Kierkegaard and all these other things, it just creates like an interesting gumbo to navigate your early twenties and early thirties, right? So like, that's the, the second part of the journey.
And so I got involved in sales marketing, you know, I've always been a bit of a creative sort when I took a sabbatical in Rio de Janeiro in 2003, just to get out, man, you know, like the Iraq war, I thought was foolish, thought the Bush presidency was te-- you know, I mean, all these other things have to be political. I'm just speaking my, my truth. When I came back, left Brazil to get involved politically on some idealistic, you know what, like be the change you would, all this other stuff. And this is what I tell the people who are activists is like, be careful what you wish for, because when it happens, you can't take it back. So I remember vividly being on the beach in Rio de Janeiro, I'm like blown, which is next to Ipanema, And I was like, I'm gonna go make a difference. Nine months later, I'm in charge of logistics for the vice presidential campaign of John Edwards on the John Kerry experience. So like I'm running the plane, I'm like lead roadie. So I go from like, like Ipanema to the airplane and I can remember being like, that was quick, right? And so got into that cycle of political activism, but with no sense of self, no boundaries. So anger was the fuel that got me into that. And it led to just concomitant self destruction, right? So gained 80 pounds, you know, would like drink bourbon for breakfast and smoke cigarettes. And like, like just was in that, like that grind and made a really strong pivot in 2012. In 2013, I was in graduate school in Europe in 10, 20, 11, graduated into the great recession, was unable to get anything, had a series of events that was essentially like the most epic experience with the dark ride of the soul that I ever had, right? You know what I mean? So I had a fire in my apartment, which was my fault. I was homeless at the end of my graduate school career, you know, broke up with my girlfriend, grandfather died. Like I said, country music on steroids, right? You know what I mean? So there's, nothing went right for about two years. And the blessing of that darkness is that it forced me to go inside. So it's like all the stuff that I've been through, existential philosophy, all this other stuff, I was like, okay, what's happening? And at one point in 2013, I was up for this job that I should have gotten my dreams and didn't get it and noticed, you know, there's always a sliver of awareness, and you talked about this in your open, and there's a sliver of awareness where there's a shift and there was that baby shift, like I didn't get the job. And like I had this witness of myself where I just exploded in anger. Then I was just like, whoa, all right, man. Like this usually ends in six months of depressive behavior and like binge drinking and all these other things. Are you sure you wanna do that? Like, it's like whoever, like that version of myself like this, the actualized version that I'm slowly becoming day by day was just like, all right, man, you did that, and you're well versed in that, but let's try this, right? And so that started the foundation of viewing my health and wellness as sacred, right? And so that led to my yoga practice like that, that led to a merging yoga practice and political activism and education. And as I've continued to invest in yoga and Buddhist practice, it has just yielded these ridiculous results, so much so that without getting too, too into it, I would find myself in these absurd situations like, hey, Reggie, you get to produce Bernie Sanders concession at the fractured democratic convention in Philadelphia in 2016, have added.
And I would just be so peaceful in these ridiculous circumstances that it just showed me to your point earlier that the level of investment in practice bears dividends in ways that you don't even know, right? And so like that happened, and then Trump wins in 2016 and I decide, well, I didn't decide, it was kind of decided for me because having worked for Bernie Sanders, I wasn't like, okay, y'all figure this out. I was just like, it's time to work and made a clear, conscious decision that if I was going to dive in the heart of the resistance, I had to be so steeped and ancient wisdom, and so steeped in internal piece that I would essentially bend the will of a crazy circumstance to my groundedness. And that manifested in like 700 hours of yoga teacher training. And again, like ridiculous experiences would come on the tail end of my training.
So, and I close by saying this, as I finished my 200 hour yoga teacher training in 2018, I was one of the lead producers of the Families Belong Together protest in Washington, DC that had 50,000 people. So this picture, like when I cut off my camera, that's me with like 20,000 people behind me, fifth raised going down Pennsylvania Avenue to like the Congress, you know what I mean? Basically like we're not gonna take it anymore. And as I'm in the midst of like, it's a hundred degrees, for those of you who have been to Washington DC, it gets hella hot over here in June and July. And so like I'm wearing like dress like spiritual whites, mala beads out, like doing breath technique to keep my body cool, my body is able to withstand it because of the physical practice that I did. And so as I'm leading this march, I'm just like, oh, this is what this is about. Okay, right. And so that's the first thing.
And the second thing that happened is that, so I don't have time to tell the whole story, but like the short of it is this, on January 3rd, 2019, we held a party on the first day of the new, of the 116th Congress where Rashida Tlaib famously said, we're gonna go in and impeach the mother, right? Like, so that was my party that came outta my budget. And like, I, as soon as she said that, I'm like, we melted the internet. Oh my God. Like, it's her first day on the job. It's my first day on the job. Here we go. So it blew up and I responded this way, right? So she says, this is gonna happen, blah, blah, blah. I whisper in her ear. I'm just like, okay, how do I follow that? And then I go and say, okay, bar clothes at 11 o'clock, hurray strong women, hurray democracy. We're not gonna take it. And just totally like was peaceful. The next day I got a phone call from one of my buddies in Edinburgh, Scotland. And he was like, hey man, I saw you on TV. I'm like, all y'all saw me on TV, right? Like if you know me and you know my profile, you saw me. And he was like, no, no, no, no, no. That's not why I'm calling you. And I'm like, so what's up. He's like, I now understand yoga. Like, I help me understand that. And he was like, man, I watch you the whole time. And like, as this was unfolding, your response was this. And you smirked when she said that, but you didn't go, oh, you know, you didn't really have like a reaction that was explosive. And it was like the amount of work to be that cool when something tectonic happened, I was like, that sir, is the practice. And then it's kind of built on itself after that. So like, that's like the origin story with a little bit of flourish.
Luke (00:18:33):
Yeah. So a lot of different things go into there. I just wanna touch on one or two things 'cause Jenny, I wanna bring you in here. One is obviously the tectonic shift from, uh, the anger that fuels the type of advocacy and, and just work and just every day experiences you've been through and everything else. To move that into what you just described as that, that centeredness, that, that groundedness that would bend, right? And in any, any issue around it is an extraordinary transition. And the piece I want to come back to in, in all of this is a little bit more detail on the journey specifically of, it's you had that awareness so that all of a sudden you could kind of see yourself, but I know that's just the beginning of it, right? That's the beginning of the work. And so we wanna talk about how do you instill that type of foundation so that those things that we care so much about we can approach, but we can approach in this whole other, other different way that you're describing.
Jenny, I just, you know, as, as I mentioned before, you know, you've done community work, you've been socially involved. You've been engaged in all these different manners. And at the same time, you've always had such this incredible authenticity and this creative expression to who you are. Now that's, that's how I've known you, right? I don't know, you know, where you're born that way or at what point, how did that evolve? Because it, it comes across certainly as not just genuine, but there's almost just this integrated congruent way that it comes across. And so I'm just curious a little bit about that evolution for you, that you were able to really truly own that path, that authentic path for yourself.
Jenny (00:20:12):
I think about the way that I experience myself and very often it, like I'm a human and I experience all the range of emotions and, and everything that goes along with it. But at the end of the day, I do feel like I'm just really, really owning my experience. And so I, that, wasn't how I was born. I was adopted and, you know, adopted by amazing parents and, you know, had a relatively really great supported childhood, but there was definitely a part of me that, uh, sorted of splinter off, kind of in a way, very early on. And so obviously not the same experience as Reggie, you know, all of us have different experiences, but there was like a splintering off of myself that I noticed. I didn't actually notice it until my early twenties though. And the way that it manifested was, you know, I was always a performer, uh, performance and creativity and expression have always been really, really important to me.
And just kind of like who I am. I did dance when I was, you know, a kid and like performed on stages and theater and everything. And I was always gravitating to the front of the stage because I felt really, really comfortable there. I felt like that was my spot, the same way that I can imagine. You know, somebody who feels really, really comfortable backstage feels, you know, you just have this, have this knowing. But what I noticed was that there was like this performative side of myself that was doing what I thought was needed to be done for, you know, the audience, literally and figuratively. And then there was like the real part of myself that I really like wasn't listening to, or even noticing that there was that part of me that I wasn't listening to until my twenties, you know, it was just a variety of different shifts that happened, you know, when I was 18, my dad passed away, um, from cancer.
And so that was a pretty massive blow. Like I didn't quite grapple all of that until I was more emotionally mature in my mid twenties. And then I started to just start to be around more people who I experienced as just way more heart aligned and started to even realize that that was a possibility, you know, and one of those people is my husband, you know, I met him when I was 24. We just, uh, celebrated 15 birthdays together this past weekend. So that was kind of cool, uh, to remember and realize, but in my mid twenties, I was experiencing the detriment of not being integrated. I was so, so deeply depressed, really, really volatile. I had a very short fuse, you know, physically manifest, like I, it was in my body. I was sore all the time. I was tired. I remember going to counseling and, and the counselor asked me where I felt safe.
And I said, I feel safe in my bed, that was the only place that I felt safe at the time. And it really was just a deepening of that awareness that helped me to realize I don't have to live that way. There was one pretty important moment, so I have a background in marketing and branding too, so when you said marketing earlier, I'm like, yep. But there were some principles that I was learning around values and branding and identity. And I started to kind of turn those inward on myself and it was in my mid twenties that I decided, okay, so I'm gonna give myself a tagline and I'm just gonna go with it and try it on and see how it goes. And, and the tagline that I gave for myself was leading from the heart, because to me that meant that I wasn't operating out of that performative, like headspace, very egoic, like I need to be something for someone else. It was leading from my heart-centered place, and I started to see things kind of unfold from there. And I did not get it perfect right away, still don't have it perfect. But that leading from the heart thread has been there throughout. And so I imagine as if someone's experiencing me, that's probably what they're experiencing from me.
Luke (00:24:35):
I guess I should say, I'm the third member of recovering, uh, marketing and branding background. Now that we've gotten that all out of the way. I am however, gonna use a reference from that, but I also, to learn, 'cos I, I'm curious to your, to your guys' reaction to where we are here, is that one of the things I had studied within that path was this recognition that the inside reality, right? The inside reality of a company, of a brand, the way they actually did things, the way they actually showed up what the culture was, all those things, the inside reality was usually very disparate from the outside perception, right? The image that they are portraying out to the world and part of what created so much of the tension in that inner reality, especially for the employees and the people that worked there was when they can see that disparity, that angst just builds and it builds and it builds until what's outside, begins to reflect what's inside.
It's only a matter of time. And so I guess if I flip back here just to a second Reggie, to you, this is the thing that I'm concerned about with like with, with what's going on all over the world right now. And, and certainly domestically, we see all sorts of things that are, are brutally painful to, to, to see. And as we do that, at some point, we've gotta come to this recognition that what we're seeing on the outside is what it is, is who we are for you to, to first start speaking to this, Jenny add in of, you know, what that is of what we've gotta start coming to grips with, because that's part of what you had to have faced in, in that transition from anger to piece. And I know that I had to face it in, in other regards, it actually created anger because I tamped that down for so long in my life. And I had to face that before I could get to anything else. And so I'm just, I'd love to just hear you to, to chime in on this.
Reggie (00:26:19):
Yeah. Well, I mean not to get, not to get overly steeped and Buddhist cosmological or psychological perspective, but you know.
Jenny (00:26:27):
No, I'm here for that. That's all good.
Reggie (00:26:32):
Like the tenant of suffering that we have as a society is delusion. There is a huge chasm between the myth of American exceptionalism and the genocide, the subjugation of, of, of black and brown people, the erasure of different identities or different genders like, that is an equal part of the shadow America. And the one thing I know about the shadow is that like, you can never escape it, you have to face it. And so every time you try and escape it, it will figure out ways to come right back in front of your face and you can close your eyes, but that doesn't mean it's not there, right? And so with respect to all the things that we've seen, so first of all, like in, in the present moment, we have seen over the past several years explicitly how racist America is to its core and black and brown people have known that for centuries, some white people are just waking up and for black and brown communities, it brings anger and pain and those sorts of things. For a lot of white communities, it brings shame or more delusion, right?
And so the inability of us to have honest conversations about our transgressions continues to confound the progress, which is equally a part of the American story. And so with respect to that in my life, I had to look an inward and be like, yo, you got heart disease on one side of your family, you know, you got diabetes on another side of your family. You're 350 pounds and you hate yourself. So is that a recipe for success? And so that's what, like that's the conversation I was having with myself. And when I was that honest with me, I was just like, no, then what's the recipe? So the recipe began like more meditation, like walking, running, those sorts of things to clear stale energy in the body. So the spirit can be like, okay, what about this? What about this? And so I've now gotten to a point through consistency of practice over years where I can't live without meditation.
I can't live without these gongs and sound bowls behind me because of what it does. It attunes me to who I really am. It's like a tuneup and a tune in, and from that groundedness and tuning in, I can be who I authentically am. And people respond to that. Like, you know, there is no perfectionism. There is no like, oh, you know, people are like, I love your social media. I say, yeah, cos the shit is real. You know what I mean? Like it's who I am, you know? And it warrants it all. Like if you like it, cool, if you don't like it, I really don't care. You know what I mean? So it's that level of freedom from a compassionate place that allows me to transform and revolutionize myself. So with respect to society, we have been avoiding these conversations for centuries and it's gonna be painful. And if we don't sit with it, it's gonna keep coming back.
Luke (00:29:35):
There's a lot to unpack here. Let me start on a personal side of shadow. In the most basic sense, our shadow is the unconscious self that also doesn't support the view of our egos. The ego will either suppress and resist the shadow elements or will project them onto others. And these shadow elements, whether resisted or projected, they can actually be seen as negative or positive, meaning it's not only what we don't like or want, but it can also be the aspects in others we admire. But we don't see these same qualities in ourselves, for instance, in my own life, those that would speak up assertively for themselves as Reggie has learned and needed to do. I would consider individuals that would speak up in this way to be maybe loud or self-centered or pushy in some way. However, in most instances, this wasn't the case at all.
I was denying my own desire to speak up more assertively. I was resisting this within myself because I had learned to be the good boy or the good student, and so on. I was projecting negative qualities onto others in order to maintain my ego's view of what it meant to be good. It never had anything to do with anyone else. In other instances, if I looked at those individuals that I considered to be extraordinary humans like Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Nelson Mandela, I saw a soul centeredness, deep faith and an inner strength that felt well beyond me. And by seeing them as extraordinary and well beyond what I could hold. I, once again made these individuals, other than myself, it distanced them from me, which also let myself off the hook from being accountable to any such standards, none of these shadow elements and many more could change until I took ownership over them.
All of my shadow elements kept coming back into my life. Usually in bigger, more dramatic ways to get my attention. My shadow would disrupt key relationships. It would shake up an element of my career. It was going to be seen one way or another, and it was up to me to finally face them, to bring them into the light to be seen. I needed to understand that what I was looking at, the images and judgements that I was projecting out onto others into the world, it was all self-created. It was all for my own psyche. There were all elements that existed in me, not out there. Shadow work isn't a straight line. Sometimes you've got to work to understand what is really going on and what you need to see and what's unfolding in front of you, but you can only begin to unwind it when you face it and own it as yours instead of putting it all on others.
And that's the collective shadow that we're actually seeing in this country. We want to put all that we don't like, all we don't prefer onto others. This keeps everyone divided, fragmented into ideological factions and tribes. Instead of operating as a community of self-responsible individuals, we can't heal the history or present realities of racism, of oppression, of inequality and inequity by just trying to move past it. We need to face it. We need to sit, acknowledge and accept what is and what has been. Without that acknowledgement and acceptance, we live with a denialism. We live with a fragmented society. We live in pieces instead of in peace, the collective disconnection, the collective pain, the collective feelings of separation, betrayal and judgment. These all live within each and every single one of us in some way, it's up to each of us to look within, to look at how are we projecting our shadow, meaning our hurts, our pain, our traumas, our judgments, how we're, are we projecting these out onto the world, and then blaming the world for them entirely?
There are hurts, pain and tragic events and circumstances that need our attention, but many of them are getting buried or dismissed beneath all the rhetoric, projections, ideologies, and camp warfare. Enough is enough, but it starts with each of us individually. And I think that Reggie has started to paint a picture and a path of how practicing active peace, first within ourselves, illuminates a way forward so that we may be able to turn towards what means healing in truth in acceptance, not in blame or shame so that we can be whole once again. The universe is always conspiring to bring us back to wholeness. And this is one such moment in time, if we would accept her invitation and guidance.
How do we learn to sit with it, right? Because everything that you just described, the delusion that's there and, and the ways in which we have bought into that and perpetuated that, part of, of in your own journey, there was a moment there that you not only saw throw, but you also did that inner contemplation, which initially maybe started with your health and it created a what's in it for you. I'm willing now to take a look a little deeper. And I also love the fact that the way that you then described that path was a way of clearing that stale energy, because there is so much that our physiology controls about our state of emotional, mental and spiritual wellbeing, uh, that does not get enough attention. You had to go through that type of process, and now you can sit in that place to be with, to be with the conversation, to be with the tension and the pressure and the anger and the attachments that are rampant in these conversations. And so I guess I'm curious, and, and for both of you and, and Jenny, certainly maybe from your own experience of sitting in communities, sitting in some of the circles that you have as well, to speak to this idea of how do we develop this capacity to sit with, to sit with that level of discomfort?
Jenny (00:35:30):
Well, yeah, it's super interesting, like thinking about these different lenses that we were, you know, able to vision ourselves through, you know, being committed to the sacredness of your health and wellness was something that was a lens that you were able to put on for yourself. So that even though you weren't in that reality at that moment, you were able to vision it for yourself. And so for me, one of those lenses for me was the power of the collective also, you know, and so I started to understand how my personality and my life purpose is to be in community with others and because of my natural tendency and ability to like be on the front of the stage, people do look to me to not necessarily have all the answers, but to be okay with holding the container for myself and for everyone else too.
And so there's a lot of joy that you can experience in community, and there's a lot of pain and sorrow that you can sit in with community. And I think that that were, that was part of the building blocks for me, was recognizing that power of tapping into community and being willing to hold the space for it and seeing it start to manifest in different ways, because I've worked through so many different uncomfortable types of experiences in community, but then that goes into like kind of the tricky part, which you were alluding to at the beginning, Luke, of like getting so steeped in that one frame of reference that you forget to be in that other reality or the other reality just isn't as apparent. And so there's a little bit of a dance and a balance there too.
Luke (00:37:21):
What keeps coming up is the fact that in these different, uh, moments where we're being with these very, very difficult conversations and both of you alluded to this in different ways and, and Reggie, I think you, you, you said this as, there is a, an energy, there is a pain, there is attention that we've got to go through, we've gotta live through right now because we have not faced these conversations. And we've been avoiding, not just these conversations, the, the big political ones around, uh, around race, uh, around systemic racism around all of these, these major, major issues, violence in our society, the whole thing, and as we look at all of these different issues, we have them also on our individual level that we need to be with the discomfort. And that's usually where it stems from is we can't even be with our individual, our personal discomfort, let alone our collective discomfort. And, and, and this is what I wanted to get to, is the recognition that this is okay, meaning that we've gotta go through this. There is beauty, and there is light that, that is contained within this pain and this shadow that is here right now. And the very fact that if we can hold space for it, if we can create those containers, we can finally bring the healing that has been avoided for so long.
Reggie (00:38:31):
I taught a class this weekend called the Grief Chronicles. So like for whatever reason, my teaching practice I've been gifted, like the charge to teach, talk about things no one wants to talk about, no one wants to talk about race. No one wants to talk about death and grief. No one wants to talk about this stuff. But like, that's what I talk about, right? And like, those are the things that I, I'm like, yo. So the class this weekend, someone shared the following wisdom is that like stars always shine, but we only see them when darkness happens, right? So we have to, and the other thing too, which is part of the reason why I talk about griefing community and this goes to your earlier question, Luke, is that like part of the reason we don't wanna sit with it is because we, for whatever, whether it's like, uh, capitalistic bent or just like, um, a certain other like philosophical bent, we think that we're in this alone, but the best way is that like the one thing we have in common other than we live and we die is that we all suffer.
And so when we get to a point, to your point, uh, Jen, like when we talk about suffering in community, we realize that the inescapable burden or the burden that is unpalpable individually becomes that much lighter and that much more ability to be alchemized in community, right? And so like, that's, that's part of my job as a teacher, as a healer, as an organizer, is to be like, yo, I'm going through this too. Like, so I most recently had a very traumatic loss in my family, I lost the equivalent of my brother who's younger than me, in October. And I taught the next week on Día de los Muertos, basically, and I held like online sangha and I was just like, listen, I don't even know how I'm here right now. Because like, I just kissed my brother's forehead as we put him in the ground. You know what I mean? But I know that on Día de los Muertos, I'm not the only person feeling this. And so like, I, as teacher, leader, am show, to your point, lead with the heart, I'm like, I am broken right now and I'm not alone in this. So if you wanna talk about this in compassionate community, let's come, let's come together. And so it takes courage, um, and it's not for everybody, you know, and I, I've accepted, this is part of my path, cos like I've got the courage to like, look demons in the face and me like, let's dance. Like I don't have a problem with that. Other people do. But like I, as teacher and leader have got to model that and model it also by creating communities where we talk about it. But Luke, the short answer is that we have deluded ourselves into thinking that we're in this alone and we're not, we're in this together. So racism doesn't just hurt black people. Like racism hurts white people, sexism doesn't hurt just women. It hurts men too, right? You know like, transphobia, you know, like all the things that we demonize other people, it hurts us also. And so when we have the ability as teachers, leaders, but also as humans, to see what we have in common, that gives us not only the, the energy, but the container to hold space for the difficult conversations.
Luke (00:41:19):
What I heard in there as well is in that grieving and, and creating that type of container is this recognition that if we have a means of beginning to talk about our pain, meaning to be able to bring that forward, to be able to shine a light on it, to be, be vulnerable enough, to put that out into some form of open space, the word that you use that I absolutely love from a community aspect, is it alchemizes that energy, right? It alchemizes it into some beautiful light, and isn't that so true? The flip side of this, is that how much of this tension and this separation and this divisiveness is about the fact we don't want our pain to be seen.
Reggie (00:41:56):
Yeah, for sure.
Luke (00:41:57):
And one of the things, and I, I guess this is kind of segueing this into, how do we start creating these spaces, is that, you know, Reggie for you, you described number one, the, that moment in which you gained awareness around your health and that created a way in for you, right? Jenny, you started to feel that performative aspect and what was authentic versus what was not for you. And you could feel this tension and you'd wanted to address that tension. You wanted it to feel more congruent and it created a way in for you. I'm curious about how do we create that way in on a bigger level? Because there are so many people that are out there that are in pain, that are on complete different spectrums, whether it's belief, religion, ideology, race, gender, et cetera. How do we begin to create those openings that we can collectively step through?
Reggie (00:42:47):
So you asked me earlier about like the concept and the notions of peace, right? Like you can't give what you don't have, right? So like I can't be active peace teacher if I don't spend hours and weeks, months, years cultivating peace. So essentially, I have detached my inner landscape and like my garden is so bountiful, I'm feeding from that abundance. You know what I mean? And so like, and we talk about peace as like refuge, like peace, that's not refuge, that's escape. Like, you know what I mean? Like peace is being in a tumultuous circumstance and being grounded. One of the craziest compliments I got in my life was for Ayanna Pressley in, in the midst of the 116th Congress, she was like, brother, let me tell you something about you. And if you know anything about Ayanna, I was like, oh my God, like, what did I do?
And she was just like, you're so cool and peaceful that when you walk into the room, the blood pressure drops. And so I'm like, first of all, like you just trying to make me cry right now? Right? Like, but it shows like we can't create spaces for others until we create space within ourselves. So that's all I'm really trying to say. And so we can't have peace externally until we have peace internally. And then when we have peace internally, the other thing that I do in like yoga and Buddhist world, is smash the notion that I'm alright, you'll figure it out because that's not spiritual, that's capitalist, right? And so like, maybe it's spiritual, if your God is money, but like my God and God is the human connection. Right? Like the spiritual connection we have is like in current beings with like spiritual life. Right?
And so like for me, I have to share this piece. That's why the piece is active for me. Like that other stuff is like, when you talk about monks in the street and the email that you sent us, if I've got all of this and keep it to myself, when this form passes away and I go to the waiting room of souls, I don't wanna have that conversation. Right? No, I don't have the conversation. Be like, yo, we gave you all these tools. So they created opportunities to heal all these people and you kept it to yourself. I don't wanna have that conversation that may not be other people's like spiritual or cosmological view. I believe that I will be held account for what I did in this life, in this form. I don't know who was by, not, I don't really know what that is, but like, but I do know that I've been given gifts and opportunities to share.
And one quick thing, I'll say with respect to the Día de los Muertos class I taught when I was grieving, the feedback that I got from that was ridiculous. Right? Just like, it's so good. Like from the basic, not basic as a pedestrian, but basic isn't simple. Is it like, it's good to see a man talk about his emotions. Right? So, so there's that, right? It's good to see black, whatever. And then there's the, I now have the space to view my grief with compassion. And now that I view my grief with compassion, I can nurture it as opposed to hide from it. And that happened like with 65 people who in turn like that healing went to other people and other people. So that is what I think, like I said, you can't give what you don't have. If we don't work on ourselves individually, there's no opportunity for us to create space for other people. And if we do that, they're not genuine.
Jenny (00:45:47):
Yeah. I love that. I'll build on that because, think that that's foundational, anything we ever talk about always has to come back to, what am I looking at internally? What's this internal experience? How am I building awareness for myself? And then yeah, it, it has nowhere else to go, but just to be expressed out and shared. So then how to show up in those spaces where it could be challenging to offer a new perspective or practice curiosity, or model behavior that is peaceful and inclusive. It takes practice. And so not everybody is going to see the same portal as you. I think that that's part of it also like we're talking about these very individual experiences where we were able to see these openings and, you know, whatever circumstances were happening that led us to that point, that we were able to see that, you know, it's because of the work that we've done and the shifts that happened internally, and we have to trust that that's happening for others too.
And so for us to be able to show up and say, I'm gonna be this person, I'm gonna be integrated and show up in this way and offer curiosity and assume the best intent and practice being patient and inclusive with you. That is revolutionary for a lot of people. And when they are met with that and they experience that from you, not only does that give them a shift or an opportunity in, of a shift in perspective for themself, then they start to see how they can offer that to others too. And that's where the ripple effect happens. I work in the government technology industry now, and I feel more aligned with my purpose than I I ever have in my entire career now, like it is possible and it's because of these different building blocks that have been created from that inside out approach. And do I have to come back to myself and like go back in, in the journey, like over and over again, of course, but those basic principles of even practicing that curiosity and openness in patience with myself and for my experience, it bleeds over into everything else.
Reggie (00:47:56):
I'll, I'll share a quick story on that is that, um, so we all know that social media has it pluses and minuses, right? I mean that, that this is, someone I follow in, they ask a question about cancel culture. And they basically were just like, you know, what's the problem people have with accountability. So I rarely engage on like the food fight stuff, but like for whatever reason, like my ancestors guys were just like, ask this question. I was like, oh, damn. Okay. Anyway, so the question I asked, I was like, when does the zeal for accountability and, and the understanding of our mutually flawed humanity began? This one woman was like, she basically was just like, who are you? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You're assuming this, you're assuming that. And like my unactualized self was just like, b***h, check your receipts.
You know what I mean? I went to Yale and majored in Philosophy. So like, don't even, don't even go there, but let's not, that's not for me that showed up in the, in, in the chat. I said, blessings and peace to you. Like I'm simply offering a, uh, question to invite critical thinking and curiosity, as opposed to just like the hard edge of thinking that we know everything. And she responded by saying your blessings and peace comes across as condescending. And I was like, ma'am let me assure you that I am a practitioner and what you are projecting upon me is your stuff, not mine. And so might I also ask you as quickly as you are to judge me, could you also see that not everyone in this game is out to get likes and some people are just speaking from the heart.
And what that did is she was just like, oh, thank you for the lesson. I will now give people the benefit of the doubt, blah, blah, blah. Right? So like it lowered the temperature. Uh, so basically I stepped into a fire, a food fight, like laid down some napkins is like, if y'all wanna clean yourselves up, the napkins are over here. And she took the napkins like, you know, who are you to put napkins here? And I was just like, take the napkin. You got something on your face. You know what I mean? And she basically took the napkin and was like, cool, right. It was a positive interaction in a very incendiary situation.
Luke (00:49:53):
That ability for us to be able to get into conversations that recognize each other's humanity and our flawed humanity at that at times, brings us back to this energy of compassion that is so missing. So sorely missing from active dialogue and active practice. And it is from that place of peace that being able to extend compassion opens up so quickly. I do wanna ask and I'm just gonna save it for the end. So you, you know, it's coming, I wanna ask a little bit about your kind of your own practices. You've alluded to a few of things, both of you, uh, for how you create that space within, but the question I've gotta ask about the topic of faith and the reason being is because I've heard both of you talk about this beyond your self perspective and, you know, Jenny, the way that you talk about it in community and the way that you extend that ability to hold space, to be patient, to be kind, to be compassionate, Reggie, the way you described it of, you know, endowed with certain gifts and who am I to withhold those, right?
If I, you get to the end of days and you're asked, hey, I was given all of these gifts, why didn't you give 'em away? You're supposed to give them away. There's a faith that goes behind that. And just to be clear, everybody, it doesn't matter of what faith, faith here, I'm just simply saying beyond ourselves at the moment of something bigger than us. And I'm just curious for you all to take, because for me that was something that was not important for a long time in my life. It was not something central, a whole hell of a lot, pun intended, shifted when that became front and center for me, right? And so I, it, that, all of a sudden enriched my life in a very, very different way, because it opened my eyes way beyond what I was in it for, for myself.
And it really truly became this, how do we, as a community, as a collective, as shared humanity, how do we walk together? Even amidst all of our differences, but I had to get to a place of faith within my own life before that would be meaningful in any way. And so I'm just, I'm just curious where, what perspective both of you can offer on that role of faith. As we try to find a way of how do we bring this active peace into some very heated rooms, but what is the role that faith plays for both of you?
Jenny (00:52:09):
I would say faith is ever evolving for me, but there are some constants that I can look to that have been ever present. I was raised Catholic, I'm no longer Catholic, but there were different rituals and sacredness that I learned within the Catholic faith that I feel a lot of respect for still. And I realized very early in my twenties though, that there were a lot of restrictive qualities that were not aligned, not aligned with what I knew was my truth. So my faith shifted from a very prescribed and somewhat singular path into, there are many paths and nature is what guides us and the rhythms of nature is what guides me. And those are the types of things that are my truth. And I, a hundred percent can fall back on them. There's science and wisdom and magic, and all of the qualities that I feel like are important for me to tether myself to. And I don't know what it will be, you know, 10, 20, 30 years from now, but for now that thread of nature and the cyclical quality of life is what I am aligned to.
Reggie (00:53:24):
Yeah, beautiful. So I was raised Southern Baptist and then in fact, I'm, I'm dialing in from a church, right. So I teach in the church where I grew up in, which is like, that's roots. If you had told me though, like that, I would be like, Yogic Buddhist dude, like with like Christian undertones, when I was like 15 or 16, I would've laughed in your face. But like, so, but so to some extent, faith has always been a part of my, of my life. The wrinkle for me is that it was never really dogmatic, is that I also like the blessing, if it can be said this way, of being black from the south is that like, I believe in the providence of my ancestors and like, I am the embodiment of their fervent supplication in prayer, like it used to be illegal for my ancestors to read.
I went to Yale, right? So part of the alchemy, Luke was that like, my anger met like spirituality and I was just like, so you can take that fuel. And rather than like, kill yourself with it, you can open yourself up to all these other things, right? So like, I, you know, used to get pissed about, you know, they're disrespecting me? Nah, baby, they're celebrating us. You know what I mean? And so even, even when I talk about like my teaching, I honor like the Buddhist traditions where I come from, because these things have been recited for thousands of years. I know enough about my ancestry and that, like, I know that my great, great, great grandfather, his, uh, first family was sold away from him in slavery, right? And so the knowledge that I have of the lineage of my incarnation yields faith, and that gives me power, right?
And so like when I was doing all my stuff on Capitol Hill and like combining with my spiritual practice, it used to be illegal for us to vote. And so I am a descendant of people who couldn't read and couldn't vote. So I'm Yale-educated with prayer beads on like advising Nancy Pelosi and her staff on impeachment, you know what I mean? Like if you can't have faith off of that, because like, I didn't get here by myself, you know? And for whatever reason, whether it be like capitalism or like colonialism or whatever it is, we have deluded ourselves into thinking it's all about, nah, doc, it ain't all about you, because like, you didn't give birth to yourself. You know what I mean? You didn't raise yourself. You know what I mean? And to your point, Jenny, that's not the natural order. Like the natural order is like, we take care like bees pollinate flowers, like trees, like, like, like the natural order is to take care and like nurture a sense of community. And to be outside of the natural order, Luke, to your earlier point, is how we find ourselves in this place. Like we have sewn the seeds of discord. And like for me, spiritual practice is about like rooting out discord and letting peace, which is the natural state of things, manifest.
Luke (00:56:11):
Beautifully said because right, if it, peace is that natural state, and so if we can root out discord, that's what all of a sudden allows us to, to drop past all of the, the vibrations that are disrupting the way that we're meant to be within this world. It allows all those things to settle and for us to drop in at that natural frequency, which is peace. And, you know, I wanna share a little bit of, of this on my own, and then ask both of you about just a little bit of those, those space opening practices for yourselves.
Reggie (00:56:36):
There's something in the Q&A actually as well.
Luke (00:56:39):
Uh, I missed something there? I will take, oh yeah, there is. I will take a look at that. So where I, I just wanted to add into is that one of both those practices for myself that allows me to create space was also one of the very things that opened up my faith, and both of you just brought it in, which is my time in nature because when I am out in nature and I am in sync with its rhythms and with its seasons and with its bird whistles and with everything going on, you can't help but understand just how connected things are and how much bigger things are than just an individual self. And all of a sudden that opened, you know, opened me up in a way that logically maybe I understood, but experientially totally different. And so that's part of my own practice.
I do, meditate is, is part and parcel to my life. Prayer is, is critical to me. Those are the, the types of things I do on a daily basis. And my church is out in the woods or it's at a lake or it's whatever I can find that connects me to nature because that's what allows me to feel it and have a personal relationship with whatever this great mystery happens to be, and it just opens me up. And so I just wanted to ask both of you for just a little bit of, of any insight as to your own personal practices. I mean, certainly Reggie you've alluded and we can see a few of 'em in the background there, but I'd love to hear just, you know, maybe one or two of those personal practices that bring you consistently back into that piece so that that's where you can come from.
Reggie (00:58:11):
Yeah. So I don't take the fact that I wake up in the morning for granted, you know what I mean? So the fact, if I'm awake, I put my feet on the ground. There's a sound bowl at my foot. So my feet hit the ground. I pick up the sound bowl and I just play. And it allows me to maybe recount some dreams that I had. If I had a bad night's sleep, it like lowers the levels a bit. So that like, so like the second of my feet hit the ground. I'm like, whatever bowl I touch, that's one thing. And the other thing, like with respect to nature, is that, um, I don't take that for granted either. Y'all be blood moon, super, the super moon, blood moon, eclipse. Like I could see it from my front yard. And I, um, was barefoot in my front yard with my sound bowl, looking at that s**t.
You know what I mean? I was just like, wow, because the other thing I think that our society sucks at is remembering that this is fun, like this is miraculous, you know what I mean? So we, we've lost our sense of wonder. And so when we, when you lose your sense of wonder, there's no place for joy and when there's no place for joy, there's no place for peace, peace doesn't come from cynicism. It comes from joy, wonder and magic. And so that's the other thing thing I think that's important. If you talk about active peace, you gotta have spontaneous joy with that as well. So active peace is like the marketing tag, spontaneous joy is the subtitle, right? Like if you can't look up in the sky and see magic there and be happy about it, I'll pray for you. So that's what I would say. So sound, drop of practice, just like recitation of either mantra or for, for people that are on my mind and heart and yeah, feet on the ground, looking up in the sky being like, wow.
Jenny (00:59:50):
Oh, I love it. I would say that's probably like looking up is probably one of my favorite practices. You know, whether it's the sunrise or sunset or moon or stars or whatever, my tendency is to verbally process a lot. And I have a lot of, you know, a lot of thoughts that I ground through verbally processing, but then also it's important for me to embody my experience because I can very often detach from that. And so I do different embodiment practices, you know, movement, workouts. I never thought that I would be a person who works out, but it actually is something that really helps me out a lot, uh, along with yoga and you know, my most consistent practice besides just like spontaneous creativity and joy. I love creating things, but my most consistent practice is being a mom. I love creatively expressing and witnessing my kids and I get to do it every single day. And every moment that I have with them, I am so centered and present and it is precious time with them. And so it took me a little while to get to that, but it's, I completely see it as a, like a centering practice for me now.
Luke (01:01:04):
I love that. So the, one is being able to view any of those things, right? That are within our life right now. You just use a, a perfect one, obviously of, of being able to use that with our, our kids. But when we can bring that level of mindfulness and of attention and of wonder, and of awe to the very things that are right in front of us, it starts to feel that energy, we can feel that start to move in a different way. And I love the connection of embodiment that you also brought in. I, I appreciate you bringing that back in cuz it's all too often forgotten. I know I, I forgot it for years. I lived from the neck up, right? And so to be able to bring in that embodiment changes the, the nature of the experience and it truly, literally integrates in a completely different way.
Uh, before we wrap up, I did want to ask this, this one question and it, you know, a great one that came in here from, from Michelle, where it had to do with just, you know, being aware of how some of this can hold up, inadvertently set up like an ideal standard, meaning to share that authenticity, it's gotta be on point to have that peace. It's gotta be on point before we engage. And so I already, Reggie's, I'm gonna throw this to you, Reggie, and so what, what do we do, right? What do we do when we don't have that perfect peace yet?
Reggie (01:02:15):
So it's not called a perfect, it's called a practice. Sometimes language is in exact, but intentionality is the perfection, right? To endeavor to try your best, that's perfection. The outcome, which we shouldn't be attached to necessarily, especially from a yogic or Buddhist cosmological perspective, like the intent is the perfection, and to the discipline and the intent is the perfection. Like the outcome is it'll never be perfect cos what does that even mean? Right? But like when I showed up the other day, I showed up at, at a class, I don't even remember, I did something that was just very raw and very honest and people thanked me for that. They were just like, that's messy and beautiful. And I was like, have you paid attention to the news? Like, or, or earth right now? Like everything is messy. Right? So like to me, like, especially like as a sound dude and a meditation dude, that authenticity of expression is not perfect because if it is perfect, that's somewhat tone deaf to me, it doesn't ring true.
You know? And I'll say ring true because I could always sound things here, but yeah. So the language is in exact and we don't always quote unquote have it. But what we do have is mindfulness of intention. And to me, that's where perfection comes from. Like perfectly love is perfect in its expression. Not, not in keeping it close, you know what I mean? And it may be messy sometimes, but that you express it is the act, right? Not, not that you hold it back. So they, like perfection, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good and that's kind of cliche, but like it's okay. Embracing the mess is part of the process.
Luke (01:03:49):
I love the connection there to embracing the mess and, and let it get messy. I remember, and it just kind of came back into me, uh, came back into top of mind, is that an interview I had done with, uh, beautiful woman by name of Megan Devine, who does refuge and grief, it's extraordinary organization. And we talked about how it's so often that when somebody goes through just a really difficult loss, we tend to stammer, right? Over our words, we don't know what to say. We end up trying to make 'em feel better. And frankly, we're just trying to make ourselves feel better by making them feel better, right? It's totally awkward. And she said, the people that just showed up and would get messy with me and say, I, I don't know what to say. I don't understand this, but I'm just gonna be here with you were some of the most powerful experiences that, that she had going through to herself and then has, you know, supported people in, in being able to be in that space.
And I think Reggie that's, that's sort of what you just described, right? Is the intention is the words ain't gonna be perfect. The words are, are imperfect, but if we can just be there and the intention of being there is to be from this place of peace, and of groundedness, and of presence and love, absolutely. And if we can be from that place, maybe a few of us can walk into the room and lower the blood pressure. And you know, that's what we wanna do is let it get messy, but show up and show up with that intention of presence, of peace, of love, of kindness, of compassion. And so, uh, I guess I'm at the point where I have to say, thank you so much to Reggie and Jenny. I have so thoroughly enjoyed this walk with you guys, getting to know more of your stories, the beautiful light and the wisdom that you have shared here.
Uh, you guys are always welcome here. Any given time of anything that's going on for you, just let me know. And so for everybody, I just, I wanna thank you again for tuning in. I appreciate you going on this walk with us, and I hope that you walk away with a few of both practices, as well as insights that are gonna allow you to take that inner journey more often and just even a step at a time deeper so that you can enter into this place. That's more peaceful, uh, perfect piece. That's more peaceful. And then you can find a way of beginning to share that out with others. And the more that we do that, the more that we create these containers and these containers that can create extraordinary transformation once they are filled with the love and the presence, the peace and the kindness that we can bring. And so thank you all for joining me here today, Reggie and Jenny, once again, I thank you guys so much and everybody until next time, continue to enjoy your journey. Thank you.
Thank you for joining me for this episode of On This Walk. Before signing off, please subscribe to the show and don't miss a single episode. Also, please rate and review us. This helps me greatly in getting the word out about this show. And remember, this is just the start of our conversation. To keep it going, ask questions, add your own thoughts, join the ongoing conversation by just heading over to onthiswalk.com and click on Community in the upper right hand corner. It's free to join. Until we go on this walk again, I'm Luke Iorio. Be well.