013 - The Space Between Transitions
Have you ever been at that point in your life where everything seems to go well, then all of a sudden, it just doesn’t feel right anymore?
This is something that has come up to me as I was looking back at my journey for the last couple of years. I’m blessed to have a beautiful family, career, business, and a whole lot of opportunities that have helped me along the way.
But once you realize that some of the great things you have in your life aren’t aligned with your purpose anymore, do we have the willingness to let go of it? Do you take the risk of going on another journey not knowing if everything will work out?
These questions led me to connect with my walking partner for today, Corey Blake.
In This Episode
(01:01) - Understanding the journey that I’ve been on for the last couple of years
(03:39) - Approaching purpose as a way of being with my life and the world
(09:43) - Being in a limbo, and why it’s an uncomfortable place for Corey
(13:51) - The disorientation phase of Corey’s journey
(16:51) - Taking our frustration and anger out on the people that are closest to us
(18:57) - Corey’s collisions in life
(23:20) - The ongoing connection to personal development
(26:31) - The transition Corey’s currently walking through
(31:08) - What have I not been willing to admit to myself that I actually need to see?
(38:36) - Learning how to let things fall apart
(41:04) - The empowerment dynamic - the coach, the challenger, and the creator
(46:04) - Why we’re getting trapped in seeing the world
(51:24) - The need to create more space for others to share their story
(1:00:41) - Corey’s water and oak tree imagery
Notable Quotes
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“Some of these challenges are so big that they certainly can feel overwhelming and we can't tackle all of them. If we all cared about the thing I care about the most, who would care about all the other things? And they would just fall apart. We have that natural human desire for the thing that matters most to us, to matter to everyone else. The arrogance that I have to look squarely in the face when I’m inclined to rescue that asks me, who am I to think that my solution is appropriate for this person? What if they manifest what’s appropriate for them? What would it look like for me to be a support mechanism for that, so they can become more of themselves as opposed to me thinking they should be more like me?”
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“If we have the ability to create more healing and wholing within ourselves, the medicine that that provides to the collective is something that is immeasurable. We’ve got the collective purpose, which is how do we, in any way that we choose to, share that with the world? And then we’ve got this other kind of like, for the sake of humanity healing that we’re doing by working through our journeys in this way. Because that now creates the possibility. Roger Bannister breaks the 4-minute mile after nobody else had ever done it, and then look at the next couple of years and people are breaking it left and right because now it’s a possibility. If we create that healing and wholing within ourselves, even if it’s not published around the world like the 4-minute mile, it creates the energetic possibility now for others. It creates a blueprint, which however we do it, somehow we connect to it.”
Our Guest
Corey Blake is the founder and CEO of Round Table Companies (RTC). In 2021, Corey launched Round Table Storytelling Academy, where he focuses on his passion for the deeper sense of belonging that arises within a company culture when employee purpose is connected to organizational purpose.
Resources & Links
On This Walk
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Luke (00:00:01):
Welcome to On This Walk, a show about the winding journey of life in all its realness. I'm Luke Iorio. Please join me and my brilliant heart centered guests each week, as we look to navigate this journey more consciously and authentically. Uncovering how to tap back into that sense of connection with self, with soul and with something bigger than ourselves. Now let's go on this walk.
Hey everyone, thanks again for tuning into On This Walk. On today's walk, we're gonna be talking a bit about transitions. We're gonna talk about being in this space in between, meaning in the middle of transition. What is it like to no longer be there, but not quite yet there, or even knowing what the next thing is that's coming? We're gonna talk a bit about purpose and the role that it actually also plays in this transition, of the way that we face these transitions inside our lives.
And so let me paint a little bit of a picture, a little bit of context for where I have entered this conversation from. There's a question, as I've looked back, I've been working on really understanding the journey that I've been on for these last six, seven years. I mean, that's where this podcast has come from. And as I've looked back and I've, I've worked with some, some incredible coaches and teachers and guides, one of the things that popped up to me as I looked at my own purpose, my own path, was why would I risk it? Why would I leave something that was working so well? And so what's the context for that? You see, I was in a space in life that everything was going really, really well. It was, it was great. The career that I had poured myself into led me to be the head of a reputed coaching institute that only continued to increase its reach and its impact with an extraordinary team.
I was already married. I had two incredible, wonderful kids, The dogs, the rescue dog, the fenced-in yard, and a business that was helping provide for my family and for my life very abundantly. Uh, I had a good reputation, I had a good network. I had all sorts of other opportunities, strategies, and possibilities for how I could keep it all going and growing. Why does somebody, why did I transition out of that? I remember even waking up one day and thinking, what did I do? Why does somebody transition out of something that was actually very largely aligned, even with a sense of purpose of contributions, service, all of those elements that contribute to a sense of meaning, at least meaning is defined by, by the way, the positive psychology and a lot of latest research looks at it. Well, the thing is, all of these, everything I just mentioned, that vision of, of life that was there, these were goals and were my purpose when I had started the journey, but they were no longer aligned with where I was, with who I was, let alone who was emerging, who I was, and how that was emerging.
And this is where the rub is, right? Is how willing are we to let go of something that's good, even great, but it's no longer aligned or a fit to risk that, to take the risk instead, for the hope that what's next is something that will align even better and even deeper. It's a pretty challenging situation, a pretty difficult choice to be sitting in the middle of. I sat with versions of that questions for years before I was shown a new path that I could explore. And to be honest, you know, you've been following it on this show, I am in ways still exploring, experimenting, and evolving almost a perpetual transition of sorts, a perpetual unfolding. And so today, just to give you the sense of where I'm entering this conversation with an extraordinary, wonderful guest that I'm gonna bring on just a moment, is that I'm approaching purpose now as a way of being with my life and a way of being with the world.
It's not something that I do, It's not something I do with my life. It's not how I make a living per se. I know that a big part of my essence is around balance, around inner balance, living within that, restoring it when I need to, inviting others to look at what balance and imbalance really looks like for them and within themselves. I know that balance for me, for most, is connected to a sense of peace. And both of those, peace and balance, connect me to that deep sense of joy. I also love the act of sharing these energies to be with people within that space, to be with these experiences and these conversations. And I do just that. So my way of moving that, that being purpose out into the world through action, is the fact that I share through stories, through this podcast and these conversations, through the coaching and the guiding work that I still do, through writing and through sitting around the table or around the fire with dear friends and new friends alike.
These are the vehicles that help to carry my energy, my way of being with the world, my way of sharing, my way of being purpose. But I still recognize all of this is where I am today, and each moment is forever unfolding. My purpose is to be with that unfolding too. So a few weeks ago, I had the chance to connect with a kindred spirit, someone who shared some of his own journey, and it speaks so deeply to what it is that I was just sharing with you and talking about. You see, what drew me to connect with him initially was his work that he had been doing for many, many years in helping people, companies, and communities connect to their vulnerability through story. He also knows a thing or two about the type of transition I just spoke about, we'll get into that today, as well as how we circle around this thing called purpose throughout our lives. I know that's a part of the conversation we're gonna dive deeply into.
And so without further ado, I wanna introduce you to Corey Blake. Corey Blake is the founder and CEO of Round Table Companies. Prior to starting RTC in 2005, Corey acted in one of the 50 greatest Super Bowl commercials of all time. He's an avid supporter and sponsor of Conscious Capitalism who has appeared on their main stage, its seven national events, and launched Conscious Capitalism Press in partnership with Conscious Capitalism, Inc. His work with books and graphic novels has yielded 17 independent publishing awards and mentions and features in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, U.S. Today, Inc. Forbes, Wired, keep going on. In 2021, Corey launched the Round Table Storytelling Academy, where he focuses on his passion for the deeper sense of belonging that arises within a company culture, when employee purpose is connected to organizational purpose. Very, very wonderful spot for organizations to be operating in today. And so with that, I wanna invite you all to go on this walk with me and Corey.
So in the way that I frame the introduction, I describe it as a few things. Number one is that our theme today is around transitions. And the fact that there is this space in between, that we seem to be almost like in limbo. We're, we're no longer there, but we're not quite to the next thing. We may not know what the next thing is yet, and so there's that space between that we occupy. But in that space between is also a really good time to explore purpose and to see the ways in which that manifest or comes up in circles back around. And so the background that I give here is, you know, I, I had been asking this question for myself as I've looked back, you know, started working with coaches and, and storytellers and just trying to figure out how do I explain my last six or seven years?
And one of the questions that came up is, why would I risk it? Why would I make the changes that I made when things were going so well? And so something that I know you can, you can relate to, but I had everything kind of lined up. The career was going well, family was going great. There were so many possibilities to keep it going and growing. And the work I was doing was connected to purpose, was connected to meaning, all the things, right? And yet, one day I wake up and I recognized that those were the goals, those, that was the purpose that I had when I started the journey. But it was no longer true, that I had kind of moved past those places. And that's sort of the rub, the, even the trap, right? Is do you risk something that's good, even great, but not quite aligned or fitting you anymore?
And do you risk that to go off on a journey to get more aligned with the hope that it's gonna be more aligned, but having no idea if it's actually gonna work out that way. And so today, as we enter this conversation, and then I'll open it to you to just see what you wanna add here, is that today, as I continue to explore, continue to experiment, continue to feel into the unfolding of what this life is, I approach purpose as a way of being. And with, it's a way of being with my life. It's a way of being with the world. It's a way of being with other people. It's not something that I do. It's not how I specifically make a living, although it's connected to the way that I make a living. And I know that a big part of my essence is around restoring balance, bringing balance into myself, into my inner state, because when I'm connected to that balance, when I'm living from there, it more easily connects me to peace, it connects me to joy.
And then it's about what are the vehicles that allow me to share that balance, that piece, that joy with others. And the vehicles are things like these conversations, this podcast, it's in my coaching, it's in the other things that I do. But those are, those are not the thing, they just carry what it is that, that I would call purpose. And so that just kind of gives you an idea of how I set us up for today. And maybe I'm just gonna pause there without even a question and just see if there's anything else you like, anything you wanna use to jump off from there and just see where we go.
Corey (00:09:37):
Thank you Luke. Uh, it's so rich. It's so, it's fertile, rich soil, right? The limbo piece was really gripping me that in between who I used to be and who I am becoming, which I find to be, um, such an uncomfortable place that I, I value on the one hand because I know it's leading somewhere. And I, I still live with the fear when I'm in that space of, if this doesn't move me into greater alignment, is it simply knocking me off the map? Like, and that, when I'm in my rational mind and in a secure place, I would never consider that possibility. But the disorientation of being in the in between is so great that it can pull someone, I'm a very confident guy, I know what I do. I know what I'm here to do in the world. I know what I'm good at in the world and how I serve and man, when I'm in that space, I don't know anything. And that is rough to rain. And it's a place of, for me, it's been a place of profound surrender where I felt like surrender was forced upon me. So surrender's certainly been a big word for me this, this year. And in that surrender, I found this unexpected relief. So, right? So the disorientation, the discomfort, the surrender, the relief, all of it to me relates to what you're talking about with this alignment journey. And I do feel like my pathway of personal development is a consistent pathway of nudging into greater and greater alignment. And sometimes it's felt like the recognition of, oh, we have a broken bone that mishealed. And if you want that next alignment step, we gotta crack this and rebreak it.
Luke (00:11:25):
Now is that a visual? And so true.
Corey (00:11:29):
Just brutal, right?
Luke (00:11:30):
Absolutely. All right. There's so much I want already, already wanna go off of and just see where we go. I love the way you phrase limbo is like when we get into that state where we feel ungrounded, we feel like we can get knocked off the map. That is a great statement. Because the way that we tell our stories, the way that we feel when we're grounded, when we can say, this is what I do and this is what my identity is, and all these little things that we use to convince ourselves of certainty, it's our map for the world and it's the way that we navigate. And when we get into that place of limbo, it's like, it's, you know, the old book of Who Moved My Cheese? It's like, well, who took away my map? Right? It's gone. And when you get into that state of feeling like not only is my map gone, I feel like actually the map is there, I just got knocked off into some far away realm and it's now, I don't even know where I'm at. And it is so disorienting. And I think that's, that's what I wanted to pick up on before we go to the surrender and the relief and everything else that you described is that stage of disorientation. Because for me, and I'm curious what this has been like for you, the number of things that I tried to then start grabbing onto, like just, no, it's gonna be this, it's gonna be, it's not, it wasn't that, but maybe it's this now, or I'm gonna now do this or I'm gonna do that. And it was like anything to try to rebuild or reclaim myself on that map is it kept coming up. There was all these temptations to do that, right? And even dabbled with a few of them and I'm like, wait, no, no, no, don't do this again. Because you're only gonna have to rip it out again. Right? And so I'm just curious for you, like what are some of the things that you faced in that disorienting, that disorientation phase of this journey? Which by the way, everybody, we're gonna go through this stage of disorientation many times in our life. Like, this isn't like a one time thing. So the more you get familiar with it, better off you are the next time you have, it happens.
Corey (00:13:28):
How nice of you to, to clue everyone into the, the horrors of the multiplicity of disorientation. Thank you for the invitation into this horrid and lovely conversation. For me, there is an aspect of, I hadn't put this together before, but as you were sharing, this came to me that, that for me, because as a storyteller, the map is the story. And when I'm, so the disorientation is, I don't know where I fit in my own story anymore. So that was a piece that, that leaped out. What you were describing though, in terms of like what we grab onto, I'm resonating with that feeling of, of drowning and, and all I want is oxygen and what will I do in order to breathe? And like I can, if I'm not careful, I can take other people down just to help propel me up.
Right? Like, and I feel like earlier versions of myself certainly swung wildly amidst my disorientation and hurt other people. So I really work hard now to be, to be more graceful amidst, amidst my disorientation, so I'm not harmful to others while I'm floundering. Um, it's far from a perfect science, but I notice I'm absolutely better at it, which I'm really proud of being better at it now. And the things that I, like that I can grab onto, yeah I can grab onto a great idea that is a shiny object for sure. This time around did feel different to me in that I, I felt like I had clarity over, even though I didn't know where I was when I, when I was amidst the disorientation, I still had somewhat of a north star. So I'm thinking, what was I potentially grabbing onto?
You know what, I would grab onto some of the darker things, like, like when I would get, I had some real, serious, deep, short-term depression amidst that disorientation where like, I really didn't wanna get out of bed. I had no motivation. And rather than talk poorly to myself about it or berate myself for it, I actually gave myself more permission than I'm used to. I was like, you wanna sit in bed and watch crappy television today? Just, just do that and eventually that gets boring. Right? But giving myself the option was good. However, I will say that sometimes I feel like in that depressive state, I was like sitting in my own stew and sometimes I would clutch that closely. Like I wanted to be grumpy and crabby and like, my wife really loves this part of me. It's, it's really fun for her of course. Right? But I was, I was grabbing on like, I deserve a little time with this piece of me. And, and it's not for enjoyment at all, but, and yet I was, I was holding that close. It's kind of disturbing to say out loud, but, but true.
Luke (00:16:21):
I also recognize that in my own journey, so much of, of what you're sharing from the, when the image that you give of, of disorienting in the sense of drowning, I know that at times when I did kind of, you know, reach for what is that I can hold onto, it's nice to talk about it when I can hold onto an idea. But the truth is, is you're absolutely right. We tend to grab onto others and it's like you almost like we're kind of dragging them down as we're going up. And we do that through our frustration, through sharing our anger, through taking it out on, you know, people that are closest to us because that's where we feel safest. And ironically, those are the people we end up hurting the most because of that. Right? And so to be more conscious of that, not to take out our inner experience on those that are actually trying to care for us and be around us during those, those times. Right? And, but I recognize what you share of, you know, the wanting to be in the space of holding onto the grumpiness, and the frustration, and the depression, and being in some dark places. And at some point that feels like more comfortable or justifying, I don't even know how to label it, but we hold onto it, like you said, a blanket and wear it for a while. And I, maybe it is that, that just becomes comfortable for a phase and it's the, it's not, I think the challenge comes and this is what I'm, you know, for me, I'm trying to think of like, what were the things that allowed me to not get lost in that? Cause I think that can be easy to do because that becomes the new story. And like you said, if, you know, if I get lost off the map, I lose my own story and I don't even know where I am in my own story, it's easy to just, okay, good, I've got a new story, I can pack that around me again now. And thankfully, you know, for, for myself it was, you know, I'm always, I'm always doing things that are, are, you know, trying to pull me into different directions, to explore further, to learn something, to read something, whatever it is that's gonna keep just something sparked in me. And there was enough there that kept me from getting lost in those stories that wanted to hold me in that disorientation to hold me in that space. I'm curious, you know, for you, maybe now as opposed to earlier in life, what are those things that support you and so to speak, tether you to coming back into that more conscious self, that more awake self and not getting lost in what was some darker and very challenging times?
Corey (00:18:56):
I call these moments in my life collisions, and we, we had that conversation previously. And it's a time when, when my identity feels like it's being shattered by forces that are diametrically opposed. And one of the last, one that I did not handle particularly well was when I was acting professionally in Los Angeles, I was a funny guy in, in commercials for major brands. There was some sex appeal to that work. Everyone from an external standpoint around me was like, you're living the dream, bro. And I was like, yeah, I'm totally living the dream. And then I would just go cry in my trailer because I was like, alone. And, you know, I got to act for like 20 minutes a day if I was lucky, and the rest of the time was just waiting around and trying to feel cool. And, but essentially I was like the guest at someone else's dinner party. Like these people had been working together for a month to get ready for this. And I came in for a day or two and, and then I left. And, and so I was having a real challenge of, I'm being compensated really well, other people seems like they would like, kill for this opportunity and why don't I feel happy with it? And so I devolved over a period of time where I started doing my own projects, where I found meaning, I started bringing together people for directing opportunities, you know, to tell stories and bring together crews and, and I loved that piece. But when I would go out on auditions, I felt like I was being pulled away from the thing I loved and I would make me so upset and, and I'd be, you know, just all, all crabby.
And so I started smoking way too much dope. And I was waking baking because I was like, I didn't know how to deal with this lack of alignment, and so I was escaping from it. And that made the whole transition much longer, I suffered much more through it all. I think other people had to suffer in my ecosystem as a result because I couldn't, I didn't, if I wasn't gonna be an actor, who was I gonna be? I had no concept of that being possible. And so I stayed and lingered too long. Lingering is, I find like, it's a very torturous place. Right? So that was the, the previous, you know, one of the previous iterations of me, this is my early thirties when I went through that collision and eventually left acting and then, you know, had a multi-year, what I call temper tantrum, you know, where I wanted the universe to bend to me, and of course it didn't and I had to eventually succumb and surrender. But that was, that surrender was, it was brutal. Absolutely brutal. This time I've had a new version of my collision that feels equally as intense, if not more intense, I'm not sure, it's hard to equate, I'm 48 now, so that was 20, that's, you know, two decades ago. But this time the, the grace that I allowed myself within this, and maybe it's because I've proven to myself that I actually, even though I feel lost within this, I have yet to result in being lost. So maybe there's some confidence that I've always found my way to the other side of this and I will again.
But I will say that I've been a part of the Stagen Leadership Academy out of Dallas since 2015. I've been in classes over there and for the past four years straight, I've been in what's called their dragons gap class, which is like an advanced leadership course, it's a very spiritual course. And we meet quarterly and, and we're on the phone as a group every two weeks. And that was a super grounding force where other people who were going through different aspects of a hero's journey, you know, we would all come together under some really profound guidance. And that kept me tethered in addition to, I work with an executive coach out of there and have brilliant conversations with them, not every in, for 90 minutes once a month and those, so I had certain touch points. And one of the things that I realized early on in this, in that program was that in my, starting in my mid 40s, I was having really big stuff happen in my life every year. And I found that when I was in some kind of personal development program to tether me to my better self, I met life's moments, right? With much more grace. And so I've, to a degree I've become addicted to always being in one. And so I've, I've kept myself in those programs and, and that's been a life saver for me to keep me sane and like I said, more, more graceful amidst my own floundering.
Luke (00:23:15):
I'm glad you connected that. And then, and also just the, the comment of, you know, kind of the ongoing connection to personal development because it allows you to tether, stay connected even as things are coming up on a regular basis, not just the, the big shifts we've talked, you know, what you just described about the leadership program. People have heard me talk about circling on this show, which I think is, is such a wonderful and fundamental practice,for so many of us to be able to talk and express what it is that we're going through at any given time. And to have that, as Parker Palmer called it, the circle of trust that we can come back to and be seen, be witnessed in that transition, in that, just moment of what we're going through in life. And that sort of, it gets us, it changes our perspective of how we tell the story, right?
Because usually we're just, we're in it and we never step back to really kind of make sense and hear what it is that we're seeing, hear what it is that we're expressing. And so it pulls us back. So to have whatever that is, coach, circling, leadership program, whatever the programs are, right? And gives us that chance. I think the, the other comment I wanted to make around touchpoints was that when we go into these spaces of in between, sometimes it is by choice or sort of by choice. I don't know if it's always completely by choice, and other times it's just like, sorry, you're in it now because of whatever loss or transition or whatever it is that's kind of been thrust upon you. When it's a little bit more by choice, we can plan for it. So like for those that might be thinking about certain transitions, you can think of what are the touchpoints and the touchstones you wanna put in place?They're gonna support you and hold you in that space for the period of time.
And if you have not gotten that choice and you've just kind of been, you know, thrown off the bus as it were, think about that, okay, what are my, what are gonna be my, my touchpoints? How can I put a few things in place that allow me to navigate this time and not pull me out of it too soon? Which is the other side of it. Because we want to, just like you said, even though it was in the grumpy phase per se, we need those times. Like it's okay to be through that and to experience that. Because that's part of the way that if I equate it most, maybe directly to grief, you don't grieve by holding it in. You don't grieve by moving through it too quickly. Grief has to run its course, it's gotta be felt.
And we need to be able to touch that directly for it to then be able to move its way through the way that it's meant to move through. And these experiences are very similar, at least in, in that regard. And so we don't want, the touchpoints that we have are almost like they hold space for us to go through that without us getting lost as we're going through it. But it's not to fix something that's not broken, it's not to heal a wound that isn't there. It's allowing us to go through that process the way that we need to for ourselves. I actually just wanted to, to ask, because I wanna come to the collision points and just see where this conversation's gonna go. But before we do, I just was wondering, you know, what you maybe feel, you know, okay, or, or open to sharing about the transition that you're in. Because I would just love for everybody to have a little bit of the context. They get to hear about where I'm at in this context all the time whenever we do this. So just to give them a little bit of a sense of like, what's the transition you're walking through right now?
Corey (00:26:28):
Yeah, sure. I'm happy to be transparent about it. So I am essentially in the aftermath of having blown up my own company intentionally to a degree in that I recognized end of last year that we were, we were being shifted into a, a pretty serious transition where we had thought, we saw the trajectory of where we were going, and then we got thrown for a bit of a loop. And in our adjustment I recognized the only way I'm gonna keep this boat in its current form, steady, is to rescue the company. And that would mean that I was, I was gonna take a fractional CMO job and get paid a lot of money and keep people employed as a result of that. And I was coming off a period of having done that for a couple years and, and I was exhausted. I was too depleted.
And in combination with, I had seen the future trajectory of where I wanted to move, which was shifting actually from a service business to a product business to go from turning people's stories into art, to holding space for them to turn their stories into art themselves, which is a pretty tremendous shift, even though language-wise it sounds like it's just one word changed, right? But it was a pretty monumental shift. And when I made the declaration that I was not gonna rescue the company, essentially what I was saying to my team was, you guys are going to rescue the way that the old formation of the company, if it's going to be rescued and have sustainability, it's not gonna come from me. And I, you know, tried to empower them to, to be able to help to do that. And ultimately we were not able to make that transition quickly enough.
And so it came to a point where I recognized, oh, we are, I was so blinded, like embarrassingly blind, I was having conversations with people where I was like, we're pre-diabetic right now. Like, if we don't make some behavior modifications, we're gonna lose a foot eventually. And reality was, we were bleeding out, we were totally bleeding out and I was in denial. I was living in hope. We had a cushy bank account and it felt, it gave me a, right, the perception of safety, but it was, it was dropping precipitously. And I had, you know, finally, I'm, as a creative person, I love to avoid the more mundane aspects of business and sometimes the financials can fall into that. And when I, you know, eventually took the harder look and had the realization, I was like, we are, we, we are way beyond pre-diabetic. Holy smokes.
And that was, that was terrifying for me because, you know, my retirement is wrapped up in the company and that's, you know, we got to a point very quickly where that's what was keeping everything afloat. And, you know, half a million dollars later, I finally made the right decisions, but pretty costly and, and I loved my team. Like we had been through, I had, you know, people who had been with me for more than 10 years and, and that I loved dearly to this day. And having to say goodbye was brutal unto itself, and then relieving. And then I was able to be excited for them, recognizing that there comes a point within any organization where as much as I love people, I become the thing that might be holding them back because I see a version of them that is not who has emerged today through all they've learned through what they've experienced at our organization.
So I'm super excited that, that now people get to fly in a new way. And I, and I hope that that is all serving them well and that they're, they're doing that from all outward appearances. It seems they are right. But that, that didn't make those moments any less painful. And then the question of, you know, what does that make me in that equation? Right? If I can't, you know, if, if, if the company fails. And that was a, that's a very specific language piece, right? Like, so ultimately, right, I was staying true to that north star and that sense of calling in purpose, even though I knew that the way it was currently manifesting was not sustainable and I had a lot to learn, but only by being in the thick of all of that. Did I finally come to that realization of, okay, this is not a pivot. This is really more like shutting down the old business and starting a new one. And it's time to admit that dude to yourself. Right? Huge, huge important moment.
Luke (00:30:54):
It's time to admit that to yourself. Yeah. That's a huge important moment right there. Even just sit with that for a second for yourself. Sit with that question even of what have I not been willing to admit to myself that I actually need to see? It's a big moment and a big action for self leadership. This ability to be honest with ourselves, to take the hard look at how things are shifting at how what was once true might no longer be true for you to admit what's plainly in sight, but that we have continually turned a blind eye to. There's tremendous strength in what Corey is sharing. First in terms of self honesty. Secondly, how that self honesty brings him face to face with letting go of his team and the company that he built. And third, it leads to wrestling with that question and thought, the one that is honestly terrifying to every entrepreneur and every hopeful entrepreneur.
What if the company fails? Let's work in reverse on this one. What really is failing? We tend to think of failing as did we or didn't we make it? Did we meet our expectations or other people's expectations? Or did we fall short? Is it time to walk away on a purely numbers basis? We could say Corey was in business for 10 plus years. Corralled a whole team. You serve tons of clients in powerful ways that brought vulnerability and storytelling into the corporate arena. Even if the party is at an end, even if the end isn't the one that was ideally chosen. That doesn't sound like a failure to me, but what if the numbers in the accolades weren't there? Would it be a failure then? Failure is such a narrow lens predicated on the expected and desired outcomes. And let's not forget the judgment that's involved with it.
We don't know what any endeavor may truly lead us to. Some endeavors are meant to last for decades, others maybe only minutes. But what did that endeavor offer in experience? What did any endeavor move forward? Even if it didn't achieve what you had hoped it would? What did it shift? What changed as a result of it? How did I change, how did you change, how did you change others? What new course emerged or seed was planted because of that experience? We judge failure in the moment with a narrow, limited view. We judge it based on the expectations in society's definitions of what success is. We judge it based on having wanted a different outcome. But we need to step back and breathe. We also need to practice some humility here because we don't know how this is all going to add up. We may not know yet why we needed that experience for some new possibility we couldn't have been ready for otherwise.
This isn't some pollyanna positive spin. It's hard work to maintain that level of acceptance, of patience, of humility, of trust and faith. But it's in taking in and working with those qualities that we prepare ourselves and our character for what can come next. Because we've also worked to let go of what was and is no longer true. Lastly, I just want to comment on the strength required to let your team move on. Our relationships are such an enormous part of who we are and how we experience in this life. When we live and work side by side with a team and a team that is working with purpose, with connection, there's a bond that forms that enriches our lives. And yet those relationships can be the very things that hold us back if we're not willing to let them evolve. Even if that means moving on.
Not all relationships are meant to be for life. Some may be fleeting, some may have a beginning, a middle, and yes, an end. Doesn't mean that they were failures in any way. It just may mean it's time to grow in new ways. And to have the respect for those that you're in relationship with, to respect their abilities and their capabilities, to have faith in them and to honor their path. There's no need to become entangled or clinging to what was. Instead, support them, love them. Honor the time that you've had with them and see whether or not your journey grows together. This whole journey, this interlude that I wanted to offer today, it all begins with being honest with ourselves, honest with what our needs are, honest with how and where we need to grow, honest with how we're holding back and maybe holding those we love back to. Honest about how things have changed, honest about what may no longer be true and honest about what our hearts and souls have been communicating to us that we haven't wanted to admit out loud. But it's in this honesty, this admitting, this acceptance, that whole new chapters, adventures and purpose can be born. And so I ask you one more time, what have you not been willing to admit to yourself that you actually need to see at this time? Now let's rejoin the walk with Corey.
Corey (00:36:15):
But I do wanna speak to the, you know, the, the getting lost piece just briefly because it, that really captured, captured me the way that you were framing that. And for me it is, I can get lost in my own head and the importance of having a community of some kind where I can voice myself out loud is such an integral part of finding my way and finding my way to clarity, the hamster wheel in my own head. I can absolutely, certainly if I didn't have the outlet, I do think I would get trapped in there and I, and I could float away into space. So I appreciate you, you raising the awareness of, and this is, we find it storytelling too. Like the importance of voicing your story out loud is so integral to stepping into whatever is next. And, and this felt very similar.
Luke (00:37:03):
Yeah. Yeah. I I appreciate you calling that back. You know, it's the way you describe the journey that you've been on, you know, and, and the transition that you are going through right now with your business. Uh, and I thank you so much for, for kind of sharing so openly as, as to what you're, you, you are just now kind of going through the next phase of that, this archetype of the rescuer is something that I see so often and maybe it's because I'm, you know, I'm so typically connected to the helping and service based professions, which by nature draw a certain orientation. The, the a certain level of empathy, income and compassion and, and the way that we wanna serve other people. And that rescuer, what we don't realize is how disempowering that can be to the people we're rescuing and that we're not giving them the space to rise into kind of their own, you know, greatness as well as for them to be able to say, you know what, I guess yeah, the only reason why I'm staying here is because yeah, it feels good and you're kind of helping hold the space to stay here.
But really it was time for me to move on already. And so when we keep going into rescuing, it's like, I'm not saying there's not all, you know, there, there aren't times for it, but it seems like it's a way of us almost like holding on, like keeping that surface tension that keeps the status quo in check. Like, if we keep enough of this tension on, it'll try and stay in place and at some point we've just gotta let it go. And that phrase from, from Pema Chödrön of When Things Fall Apart or her, you know, her wonderful book, at times, I think we, we need to learn how to embrace, how to let things fall apart. How do we let them come down and, right? And to look at the things and say, this isn't sustainable, this isn't balanced, this isn't stable. There's no way I could, you know, do this for another couple of years, let alone five or 10 years. And to have the honesty to be able to voice that is huge.
Corey (00:38:58):
Huge. I hate admitting this. All right. I hate admitting this. When I was in the throes, man, I so badly wanted to be rescued, like, I was making phone calls and I was begging for it. And I wasn't saying those words, but that was the energy man. And I am so anti rescue, right? But in those moments, man, I was so praying that someone was gonna be my hero and, and thank goodness they weren't, right? As desperate as I was for it. And as much as I wanted somebody to just make it all better just to alleviate suffering. And I, I get that human desire too. But I do, I I think rescuing is a chronic disease in many ways, right? I, I think we are, we are addicted to rescuing and it's, it's a default. I think most of us, when we engage in it, we don't realize we do it because we like, if we knew we were disempowering someone else, I, I think we would probably often make a different decision. Maybe not always. I don't know if you're familiar with David Emerald and his book, The Empowerment Dynamic?
Luke (00:40:06):
No.
Corey (00:40:07):
So he goes through the, the three points of the drama triangle, which are victim, persecutor and rescuer. Right. And specifically, you know, I just love the language of if I don the hero cape and I rescue, what am I, what does that say about you? It says that you're the victim and it says that you're incapable of rescuing yourself. So it is inherently a disempowering move. Now, of course, in some situations in life that is exactly what's happening. And, and for survival, someone needs to be rescued. But so frequently, right? We, we pull out that, that mechanism in an effort to alleviate what we perceive as someone's discomfort because we feel like, well we can, so we should, and ultimately we enable and disempower, right? And they don't grow. And it's so prevalent in business and we see cycles of it and cascading impact where people pull each other into that drama zone. And David Emerald's work is all about moving into the empowerment dynamic, which is just three different points of, of coach and challenger and creator. And it's such a beautiful model. I just, I love him dearly and and love his work dearly. And it's so simple for people to, to recognize, oh, oh yeah, we're, we're manifesting drama. Like we're contributing to the drama. How do we pull ourselves out and become creative? Right. Or challenge each other appropriately or coach so that other people can learn how to be their own hero.
Luke (00:41:32):
Yeah. I love that you brought this up because this, this aspect of the way that you just described, the rescuer within that drama dynamic that is there, the, even a disempowerment dynamic is that for so long, and part of the reason why I think that that rescuer archetype is something we lean into is there feels like there is something so noble about it that is heroic, right? And so we see the praise for it. We see the, like this is yes, I wanna be the hero, I wanna be the one to step in. And what we don't realize is that it's perpetuating the persecutor and victim dynamic. It's feeding into the whole of the system. You can't, you just create and, and continue that, that cycle over and over and over again by playing in that game. And so, uh, without having known the rest of the model, the way that you brought it up with challenger, and it was challenger, coach and what was the third one?
Corey (00:42:20):
Creator.
Luke (00:42:21):
Creator, excellent. And so because what was in my head was already connecting to what you shared about the, the leadership program, what I shared about circling is that in, when we have these places that can hold space for us so that we can step into seeing our story in a different way, we can express what's coming through and we can reconnect to that power, that agency, that sovereignty that exists within us and allows us to say, wait, hold on a minute. I can see, I can understand what's going on right now. I can see an angle that I didn't see yesterday. Or I can just acknowledge this part of me that I wasn't willing to acknowledge previously. And it creates this space that the new paradigm of how we can step into that creator role can really begin to unfold. I'm kind of sharing that out with everybody because it's very, it's very challenging at times to think about like, how do we shift out of these old paradigms, these old dynamics that are there, right?
Rescuer is a good thing. We need to rescue at times, but we've gotta be aware of what dynamic does it perpetuate and what are the other ways to enter these dynamics that create a much more empowered state and remind everybody of their personal sovereignty and their personal agency because we need, well frankly, we need a lot more of that. I don't know if you've seen the commentary, I saw an article, this was a while ago. So many things that we're going through right now in society is because we keep waiting for the rescuer. We keep waiting, waiting for, you know, the hero to step in, whether it's environmentally, politically, economically, or what have you. We think, you know, Marvel is gonna send the latest superhero to step in and all of a sudden be planet is well guy, right? And we just keep, we keep waiting for that dynamic for getting that guys, it's on us. It's the women and men of of this earth that have got to start stepping into this.
Corey (00:44:10):
Well, admittedly, right, some of these, some of these challenges are, are so big that they, they certainly can feel overwhelming and we all can't tackle all of them. Right? And if I get frustrated with you, because you don't care about the thing that I care about most, right? If we all cared about the thing I care about most, well, who would care about all the other things and they would just fall apart. But yet we still want, we have that natural human desire for the thing that matters most to us, to matter to everyone else. But there's, there's, there's something in the, in the floating to me, in the nebulousness, in the, or maybe I'll say actually more, more, oh, I don't like saying this either. The arrogance. The arrogance that I have to look squarely in the face when I'm inclined to rescue that asks me, who am I to think that my solution is appropriate for this person? What if they manifest what's appropriate for them? Right? And I, what would it look like for me to be a support mechanism for that so they can become more of themselves as opposed to me thinking they should be more like me?
Luke (00:45:34):
That's a, that's three, four more hours of conversation. Well said Corey. It is, right? This, trying to see if I could say it any other way than arrogance as you described it. But it's, if I just say it from this self-centered standpoint, and, and when I say self-centered, I mean it not necessarily in the kind of, the big arrogant way, and I think you mean it this way from an arrogance as well, is that we get so trapped in seeing the world because to us, we are the center of our lives. We are the center of the world because we can only see and sense through our individual personal senses. And so in that regard, our view of things inherently comes from a place that can be very self-centered. And so we see what we believe is the answer, and maybe it would be the answer if that was actually us in the situation, but it's not, we don't know what that other person's journey is.
We don't know what their, their true experience of life. Just like nobody knows the actual experience of life that I have had. I can try to convey that in words, but it'll never be a full picture of what I, what I've been through. And that we don't know what's best for them. And that's, that's just even at a human level that doesn't even go into the spiritual side of things as to what is our spiritual journey and what might be laid out for us to be able to look at an experience within this life that we're not gonna understand until we're on the, on the other side of this thing. And so there is so much richness in what's there and in being able to be that support or that space holder for that person's journey to say, I see you, I honor you for what you are experiencing.
If you ask to lean on me, you can absolutely lean on me, but I am here to just be with you if nothing else. And I believe that whatever this is, you've got it in the way that you are meant to it this time. And that's a very different dynamic that we can lean into. And I appreciate you bringing it from that standpoint of let's look at our own arrogance in this. Even if our arrogance, our self-centeredness is meant in kindness, it's meant in even compassion. And I think that's, right? That's where we get so entangled is that we don't realize that at times, even these really beautiful, virtuous things that seem like they're on track, they're still coming from our ego. They're still coming from, we believe we know what's best or what's right in this world and that we don't want discomfort. We wanna help people through those times. So I mean, it's like all this stuff that's noble, but it's also very difficult to look at the fact that it's still coming from a place of ego as opposed to saying, as I said before, how can I support this person on their journey? The way that they ask, the way they choose, the way that they're headed, as opposed to me stepping in and taking over, you know, their journey, their direction, their task. Really appreciate you bringing that up.
Corey (00:48:37):
Oh, thank, thank you for exploring it. You know, I really try to remind myself consistently that I know nothing about other people's truth. I know nothing about the truth. I have a story that I tell myself to make meaning of data that I see out in the world. The more that I can lean into and remember that, the easier it is to simply sit with someone else while they're trying to work through their stuff. This is something that I get to do a lot of. And it is so meaningful to people to have a place where they can just be with another human being who's not either trying explicitly or insinuating that there is something about them that's broken and needs fixing. Right? If instead I can shift into, yeah, there's, there's parts of you that are fractured and broken as there are with all of us, and you've also filled a lot of that in with gold. And it's, it's part of your beauty now. And right now you're in the midst of some breakage that time tells us and the data tells us you will also eventually feel with gold. But right now it feels pretty crummy. So let's just sit in that and if you wanna talk about what that experience is like, I'm not here to judge you for it, and I'm not here to tell you how to solve it. I'm simply here to listen and reflect back what I'm hearing and, and the impact it has on me to hear it. That is such a gift to people. And it, it's just very few spaces that we have to feel so human.
Luke (00:50:20):
Yeah. Oh, that's tremendous. You know, it's, it, it reminds me of, of the, the Leonard Cohen quote of, there's a crack in everything. That's how the light gets in. And if we're not with those moments when we're cracking, we fill them up too quickly or we move on and don't even notice them and we don't realize the light that is trying to come in. And to be able to have and be in a space with people where they will hold that for you and to hold you while you're in a place of feeling those cracks, and to have them witness that and to witness you in a manner that all of the sudden that light starts coming back through you again and filling in the cracks. And to be in that space is such a rich environment and so deeply to me, deeply connecting and deeply meaningful.
It, you know, immediately conjures up all the work in support and circles and things like that. It conjures up the way that, you know, we as, as ancestors used to gather around the fire and, and tell these stories and hold this space for each other to do so. And we need more of that. We need, you know, more of that sense of community, creating more space for others to share, not waiting around the, you know, dinner table where you get to tell your next story and instead giving somebody that space to just be witnessed. To just be held.
Corey (00:51:53):
Hmm. I love that you bring up the dinner table because there is a version of the story that we're comfortable telling and that we like to tell and every time we do it, it rarely affords us an opportunity to step into a new understanding of ourselves or the world. It's just, it's fun to tell or maybe it's a version that we like putting out of our identity in the world. But it's, it's, you could say to a degree, it's the social media version of broadcasting my story. Right? And to have a place where, where we can explore our humanity and where it's safe to do so, where we won't be rejected for, for exploring that, the world does need a lot more of that. I think business needs a lot more of that, particularly so that we can be more alive in that space as well.
Luke (00:52:36):
You know, you, you reflected on it because I, I had brought up the, the imagery of, of dinner table and it is interesting to think about. Because I actually was, I just released one of the previous episodes and there was a statement in there that Dre Bendewald was making, and it had to do with reminding she holds circles for specifically, typically for women. And there's a lot of apology over, oh, I'm, you know, I'm crying, I'm sorry, I don't know why I'm crying. I'm sorry. Right? And she framed back to us and what she frames to a lot of people she holds this space for was that if we're not crying, who is? And if we're not crying, who's teaching our children how to feel their emotions and be okay with this and that just all of that kind of comes up for me, because I think of the way in which we do share stories around the, the dinner table with our family, with our children, with our friends, and how often do we kind of cultivate or tell the, the highlight reel of the story as opposed to sharing the full emotion of the experience that we've been through.
And that when we do, and come on guys, this is, this is exactly why we're having these conversations and sharing this, is it opens up so much in everybody that participates in that space. Even if they never say a word, even if they're just witnessing, even if they're just holding space. It changes us. It's, we allow others into us and we allow a part of ourselves to extend out and reach out to them. To me, that's a very different form of human connection that unfolds. So with that, I'm gonna take us in a completely different direction.
Corey (00:54:16):
I enjoyed that so much. Thank you for, for all that inspiration.
Luke (00:54:19):
Thoroughly enjoyed it. What I wanted to come back to is you mentioned collision moments, and it's interesting because we were talking a little bit about the, the rescuer and the hero archetype and everything else you were talking about. You know, we want other people to, to, to care about what matters to us and oh, you know, we can't handle all of the things we, we've gotta pick and choose kind of what is right for us. And what that speaks to me is, you know, for me, when I think of purpose, I think of that every single one of us, the purpose we have here, is to bring innately who we are out into the world. So to be very, you know, understanding and explore what is it about me that lights me up that has me feel alive, that has me feel purposeful just in the way of living, not because of anything I do.
And then feeling centered in that. How do we bring that out into the world? And if we had more of that, then everybody does their thing. But it, you know, it's, it's the rising tide that raises all boats if we all started showing up that way. And so for you, when we started talking about purpose, you brought up these collision points and these kind of forces that we, these two different forces that we dance with throughout the course of our lives. And so I was wondering first if you could explain what you meant by those collision points and use that as an entree to that part of the conversation. Because I think it's a, it's a different lens for a lot of people to look through at, at the, the story of purpose within their lives.
Corey (00:55:37):
Do you mind if we explore something that you shared earlier, as an example? Earlier on you, you, you mentioned, um, balance in such a way that it felt, it felt like a centerpiece in your life. And it immediately, like I, you know, if we had, you know, infinite number of conversations, I would've immediately slowed us down and been like, hey, tell me about the world that you grew up in and what was the relation, where was their balance and where was their imbalance? Can we start there and then, and then I can kind of lead us into the collision combo?
Luke (00:56:07):
Oh, absolutely. Which I have a feeling is related to, uh, you know, kinda my first collision moment as it were, is that at five and a half years old, my household home burnt to the ground. And so inside of a very, very short period of time, I mean, you're talking one afternoon I was, you know, carefree, exuberant, I've already owned it. Weird, kindergartner. Um, that's who I am. Right? And the next thing I knew, and my parents even say, even my mom is especially, says like, overnight I became serious. I became self, completely self-reliant and I took everything upon myself. And I, number one, I repressed my emotions. I didn't wanna put any other burden on anybody else. I was gonna just take everything on my own. Because it was my way of trying to restabilize what I felt had just crumbled. I mean, literally, I think it was when we walked out of, out of what we were able to recover from the fire, I think all of my possessions fit, you know, in a, in a box that was maybe a foot and a half by a foot, there was a couple of stuffed animals, I think was like 80% of it. And that was what we, you know, that's what I had. And so for me, when, when I think of what got out of balance, like that was, that's the first moment that it felt like everything shifted. And I was constantly trying to find, how do I put my feedback on terraferma?
Corey (00:57:21):
Yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. And if we say, okay, the fire is a, is a collision moment, right? Where previous to the fire, you have an understanding of who you are in the world, right? And then in a moment that is broken to a degree or shattered or some, somehow fractured, and suddenly the understanding of who am I on the other side of this event is up for grabs. And so interestingly that you, you use the word balance is our doorway into this piece, right? And so, so I'm kind of making some, some leaps here that, that you felt a sense of balance previous to the fire and that it knocks you off kilter. So what do you, intuitively you do something that I would call creative to bring yourself back into some sense of balance. And you mentioned that there was this seriousness, and I don't know if that's what your, with the direction that you're going, but your parents were, your mom recognized, something shifted in you that you used as a technique to help yourself feel grounded again. How would you, what would you describe that as?
Luke (00:58:29):
Yeah, I think you already picked up on it. I, that's where I began over emphasizing the doing side of my nature. Because in doing, in acting and getting, you know, meaning, uh, you know, moving action forward, making decisions, being very driven, very controlling in the way that I drove myself, being good at school, being the good boy, being the good, like all those things. But it was all through this idea of how do I use my actions and behaviors to create something that feels more steady. So it was, it became an overemphasis of my doing nature.
Corey (00:59:03):
Yeah. Okay. So tell us a little bit more about previous, what was your relationship to, to control or, or doing before?
Luke (00:59:11):
You see that was, that's the funny thing is that even beforehand, my parents would tell you that I was still very, very highly independent. It was there, that was just kind of part of who I am. But in that independent time, I was wildly creative, meaning like my favorite thing, now we are back in the confessional and the admitting thing. Right? Okay. So one of my, one of my favorite things that I don't normally broadcast out to everybody, but I used to as like a three and a half, four year old, I used to tell stories of the good old days to my whole fam generationally, okay, the good old days. And I mean, they were elaborate with all sorts of characters and everything else going on. And my Italian grandmother, when I'm like four years old, looks at me and she goes, oh, so you think you've been reincarnated thinking she's gonna stump the, the four year old kid? And without missing a beat, I look back at her and go, oh, I've been here before.
Corey (01:00:08):
Wow.
Luke (01:00:09):
My grandmother starts with the novenas and now I'm thrown off the church. But I, it was, I would get lost in the creativity and in the, just like the flow, the flow of that's what it was. I got lost in the flow of life. So even though I still had that independence streak, that independence was used in connecting to the flow of things as opposed to trying to control and do my way through life to control for the flow that that was outside of, you know, what, I could get my hands around
Corey (01:00:39):
Holy smoke. Okay. So I'm having a very physical reaction to what you're, what you're describing and where I just landed as you were, as you were kind of bringing it home was, I was water before and I was oak tree after, right? The fluidity, and you know, whatever language is, it feels appropriate to you. But I was getting a very strong imagery. So I just throwing that out there for you to try on, the fluidity, the imagination, going with that flow, the creativity to be, I, I feel like when you're, when you're telling those reincarnated stories, you're like the, you're the white waters. Like, like, right? Like it's just, it's building and, and it's alive. And then this fire happens and, and it's not about being fluid anymore. It's about being solid. It's about being grounded. It's about being strong. So if we look at that as a, as a, a pivotal initial collision moment, the first time that your intuitive version of your identity in the world comes up against something with enough force that you have to learn a new way of being.
My hypothesis is that, I've been playing with for a while here and testing on lots of people and so far is proving true, is that on average once every decade, the collision you will come back to is that of being free and flowing, right? To feeling for some reason. Like the world is telling you you have to be the oak tree again. You have to be strong and controlled and deep-rooted. And it will manifest differently each time. But in essence, what I would say is your, the oak tree is your polarity. It is the other end of the spectrum. And you hold the tension between, and again, this is my language, you'd have your own, but the water and the oak tree and the fluidity and the strength, right? And, and your life becomes the flow between, and the, you could say in a way the learning to become more and more in alignment with being okay with both of these.
Because for the first two, few times that we go through the collision, the inherent human desire is to get back to the original state. I prefer to be water, but I have to be oak tree, until I'm oak tree for long enough that I get to be water again. And I do that for a while and I'm rocking it until something happens. And damn it, I gotta be the oak tree again. Right? And I'm there, and now I learn how to do it differently and I learn how to maybe do it better or manage myself better. And then I do it long enough that I get to flow freely and, and I start moving again. And now I'm, now I'm water, and now I'm, I'm white water rafting, like, like that kind of rush. Right? And then a different unsuspected version of the collision will show up again.
And lo and behold, I gotta be a version of my oak tree again. And it is the tension between those two that, you know, intimately in a way that most people know something else intimately. And you know, the pain of that specific kind of collision related to the the fire moment, right? The, the like, right, so, so other people may have an intimacy with, with the water and the oak tree, but maybe not as, maybe they don't have the same kind of experience of the pain that come from their world being decimated by fire. Right? Something else might have been their catalyst so they may have intimacy, but in a slight, you know, to the left or to the right of your experience of it, you know, you know this spectrum and you know it through a unique lens of the way you experience the pain of having to be the oak tree when you love being the water. And then, but over time, right? You learn if you, I think our mission here is to learn how to start to love the polarity piece and find a way to honor that and bring it into our life with more intentionality. So we are not, right, entirely surprised when it shows up and have no tools to handle it and therefore flounder, we get better at it. The way that we're of service to the world is that we serve others who are in some relation to that flow between those two.
Luke (01:04:56):
As beautifully, beautifully said and explained. And I hope that the, the imagery, the way that, that you painted this picture of my experience and what that has represented is something that gives people a tremendous amount to think about. I would, I would imagine it would. And the way that you, you wrap here right, is uh, uh, on this piece is the way in which we learn to hold those polarities within us. One of the things that I've, I've spoken a lot about on the show, and I'll be speaking even more as we go, there's a wonderful book called Embracing Ourselves. And it's written around this process called Voice Dialogue. And there's an intended pun in the way that they say that because when they say embracing ourselves, they're not speaking to the collective. They're speaking to us as an individual embracing all of the selves that exist within us, all of the parts that exist within us.
And so the polarity that's there, or the dynamic of the multitude that we are, and that within that multitude, we've got some things that sit over here and other things that sit over there, some that are in the light, some that are in the shadow, some that are primary, some that are disowned, however we wanna describe it. And it's how do we hold space and bring everything kind of back into the fold and welcome it all and be able to, to hold that space. And whatever that journey looks like for us, as you said, is that somehow it's like us gravitating around other people that are going through some level of similarity with that dynamic, with those polarities, with those selves. Because that's where we can best, you know, support and give, as long as we have continued to, to kind of increase our consciousness or our evolution, how we wanna frame it, of becoming more aware of what that dance is with these different parts of cells and, and what these polarities are.
And I think that's, you know, if I, if I connect this back to purpose, I wanna hear your take on it. I think that's very directed to, to purpose. Because regardless of what we're doing in the world, there's this innate nature. I'll use restoring balance as part of something that's innate within me or connecting to inner balance. It's innate within me. And it doesn't matter what I do for a living. That's gonna be present for me no matter where I go, no matter who I interact with, that's gonna be inherently in the way that I'm showing and sharing my energy with them. And it could be over a cup of coffee. It doesn't have to be anything, you know, professional or otherwise. I think the other part of it is that in that polarity, the way that we are learning to hold them and hold that space, there is something very healing and wholing about that.
And that to me is something that, that without us going way too often to the esoteric and the metaphysics and quantum physics of, of any of these beliefs for every single individual, if we have the ability to create more healing and wholing within ourselves, the medicine that that provides to the collective is something that is immeasurable. Immeasurable. And so we've, to me, we have kind of the inner purpose of being aligned and being able to hold that wholeness all together and all the pieces that make up the whole, we've got the collective purpose, which is how do we in any way that we choose to share that with the world? And then we've got this other kind of like, for the sake of humanity healing that we're doing by working through our journeys in this way. Because that now creates the possibility. Like it's literally like, you know what, you go all the way back to somebody breaking the four minute mile, right? Roger Bannister breaks the 4-minute mile after nobody else had ever done it, and then look at the next couple of years and people are breaking it left and right because now it's a possibility. And so if we create that healing and wholing within ourselves, even if it's not published around the world, like the 4-minute mile, it creates the energetic possibility now for others. It creates a blueprint, which however we do it, somehow we connect to.
Corey (01:08:58):
Lovely. I love, that was really fun to listen to and so alive that the, the piece that you were, were pulling me into is the, this work on self that I do makes me kinder to myself and in making me kinder to myself, I am more apt to be kind to others. The more graceful I am to me, the more I suspend judgment for myself, the more I'm apt to do the same out in the world. And the more that I do it out in the world, actually, the more apt I am to do it for myself. And that is that that ripple of impact that can extend quite far. Right? We all, we all touch a lot of lives. It's, it's, it's virtually impossible not to anymore. Some maybe have more contact with others, but, but we all touch lives and the responsibility to do our own work and to make ourselves more psychologically safe for ourselves, right? Creates and helps to manifest more of a field of safety for those around us. Like I'm big on the ownership of psychological safety starts with me, right? And that is my relationship to myself. How I talk to myself, the ways in which I, I berate myself, you know, how do I ease those? How do I, how do I practice, literally practice suspending that judgment and being easier and kinder and then how can I observe and be aware of the moments when my very human instinct to judge that is within us all and was part of our programming from the beginning, but is not as necessary as it once was. Right? Where can I notice that it's kicking into gear for some purpose that I'm getting some reward for? But is it really valuable to me or is it just a default? And then I can actually calm that down or dismiss it or, or, or say, thank you so much for showing up and having your really lovely opinion, but we're, we're gonna move in a different direction today, right? And I'm gonna choose to tell a kinder story about that person that I just saw online at the checkout that has a haircut that made me say for some reason, oh, they were willing to leave the house looking like that today? Like, what an interesting choice. Instead I might say, you know, tell a kinder story like, like that person had, you know, had a need and, and didn't have a, a mirror nearby when they looked out, but their commitment to taking care of someone else, pull them into the store. Both of those stories are equally plausible. But we have an inherent natural instinct to tell, right? A more derogatory story about other people to help ourselves to feel good in the world. It's just a, a natural human thing, but our awareness of it and our ability to start shifting it and realize I have a choice in the story I tell myself about others and about me literally changes how we behave in the world. I change how I show up outside by how I change how I show up inside. And that inside work I have a lot of control over. Right? If I'm willing to take a hard look at it and, and to practice getting better at it, the impact is I think very profound and beautiful.
Luke (01:12:14):
I think so, and, and it is so true in what I have experienced that when we begin to find that place that we can be kinder to ourselves, when we can be gentler with ourselves more compassionate to ourselves, the way in which that extends out to others is incredible. And I think of you, you know, you just used the, the story, the example of the person who walks in with the hair into, into the coffee shop or whatever, right? Is that, and I'm gonna use this because I, this, I promise everybody, I swear to God this is not a plug for Corey's company because I use this round table example. I promise you I do. Okay. People have heard this so, it's that when we imagine all of these different parts of ourselves, the protector, the rescuer, the critic, the pleaser, as well as the compassionate one, and the courage, courageous one, when we recognize all of these different parts within ourselves and we can hear their voices, but we recognize that they are sitting around the round table and we are the ones still sitting in the middle, we're sitting in the center, it allows us to recognize that this is just one story, this is just one voice.
This is just one way of explaining things. And I've got all of these other voices and energies and parts of self that are around me, which are the ones that I choose to listen to in this moment that allows me to be the version of me that I feel is truest and is the one that I want to emerge into the world and to bring it forward from that place. And so that's, you know, that's more my language for it. But Corey, you describe it so well through the storytelling lens. I mean obviously that's, that's what you've done for all this time, right? And so I guess again, I just kind of reiterating to everybody to sit with what's coming through today because there is so much that helps you navigate those spaces in between that are really, really rough. They feel like rough terrain. It feels like sandpaper on the inside. And yet if we can create these spaces and create these containers when we can hear things that help us recognize maybe the collision that we're going through at this time, it gives us this whole other perspective. And we can start to feel for all these polarities as well as all these different voices until all of a sudden we recognize them as one hole. And so I just wanna say, Corey, this has been an absolute blast for everybody listening. I am absolutely going to be inviting Corey back.
Corey (01:14:36):
I show up tomorrow. Very alive. I appreciate the realness.
Luke (01:14:41):
I appreciate exactly that. I appreciate the realness, the openness, the wisdom, the experience, everything that you know that you're going through right now and everything that you are that you were able to bring into this conversation. This was incredibly rich and it felt very, very deep and connecting. And I appreciate that and I appreciate you.
Corey (01:14:58):
Thank you, Luke. It's a real honor to be with you in this space.
Luke (01:15:02):
Thank you for joining me for this episode of On This Walk. Before signing off, please subscribe to the show and don't miss a single episode. Also, please rate and review us. This helps me greatly in getting the word out about this show. And remember, this is just the start of our conversation. To keep it going, ask questions, add your own thoughts, join the ongoing conversation by just heading over to onthiswalk.com and click on Community in the upper right hand corner. It's free to join. Until we go on this walk again, I'm Luke Iorio. Be well.