015 - A Walk with Purpose (Part 1)

What is my purpose? What is the meaning of this life?

There are moments when these questions come screaming at me with this tremendous sense of urgency for years. At times, I've had answers to some of these questions, and other times I've struggled greatly when these answers no longer held true.

One of the most recent chapters of this walk that I’ve been on is something that I wanted to share with you in this two-part conversation because it was such an extraordinary experience.

Join me as we unfold this part of my journey with my walking partner for today, Tim Corcoran.

In This Episode

(04:48) - What the Buddha did not know about hunting
(09:14) - Losing my connection with nature
(15:51) - My path with mindfulness, Buddhism, and other related wisdom traditions
(24:09) - Why conversations about purpose have become so prevalent
(32:05) - Belonging is worth investing in
(40:10) - What is a soul wander?
(47:00) - How my hibernation in a cave led to my first intimate experience with a guardian tree
(53:19) - Tim’s story of Grizzly Butte
(1:07:58) - Within your wanders, pay attention to your noticings
(1:14:20) - Tim’s philosophy on healing

Notable Quotes

“Many people are waking up and saying, okay, how can I help? This is not right. Okay sure, I can ascend, I can experience meditation. It's a great break from the craziness and the suffering of the physical world. I've got kids, I have a wife, I have children in my community I care about. What are future generations going to experience? What can I actually give to this? What am I gonna leave behind? ‘It's all temporary, don't worry about it, I'll meet you on the other side’. No, you know, I care about this earth. This earth has helped me, so I love it so much, and I want to leave the best gift I can to this planet. I think more and more people are waking up to that or asking those questions, why the heck am I really here? Is it just random? Was it just an accident? No, there must be a reason why I have taken birth at this time. There must be something I have to offer. That's what I hear from the people I work with, and the people who reach out to me and conversations like this that need that yearning just grows and grows, and so that is hopeful to me.”
“There's something that we are connecting to through those experiences that is either informing or working with our soul to transform us into the path that we're meant to be on. And it's in those moments of balance that we start to connect to that and see what we've been through in a very, very different light. And it opens up something beautiful in us. I love that perspective of the language of minimum amount of healing. Because we're not meant to stay perpetually in that cycle. We're not meant to be perpetually in any cycle, and that's where we don't wanna get lost in the healing. We don't wanna get lost in dreaming of this life. We want to be able to continue. Let's move forward in that dream. Let's be aware that we're dreaming and let's interact with it in a very different way. But as we continue to grow from that place of being, and being able to bring that forward, and pay that forward, and offer that giveaway to others, and we'll heal along the way as we need to continue to because it's gonna happen.”

Our Guest

Tim Corcoran is the founder of Purpose Mountain, where he offers Nature Based Purpose Guidance to support people with a love for wild nature who feel a deep yearning to discover their purpose. Tim also serves as co-Director of Twin Eagles Wilderness School, an organization he co-founded with his wife in Sandpoint, Idaho in 2005 dedicated to facilitating deep nature connection mentoring, cultural restoration, and inner tracking.

Resources & Links

On This Walk

Luke (00:00:01):
Welcome to On This Walk, a show about the winding journey of life in all its realness. I'm Luke Iorio. Please join me and my brilliant heart centered guests each week, as we look to navigate this journey more consciously and authentically. Uncovering how to tap back into that sense of connection with self, with soul and with something bigger than ourselves. Now let's go on this walk.
Okay, let me set the stage for this walk. I've been walking with these big questions of, what's my purpose? What's the meaning of this life? And many others like this for years. These questions have come to me as whispers, and in other moments they've come screaming at me or weighing on me with this tremendous sense of urgency, as well as some existential angst for that matter. At times, I've had answers to some of these questions, and other times, I've struggled greatly when these answers no longer held true.
I wanted them. I tried so hard to hold fast to what was, what had been, but it was no longer true for me. But we change, we grow, and hopefully we evolve too over the course of our lives, and our relationship to purpose, meaning, balance, even our relationship to relationships change, grow, and evolve along with us. Well, during one of these most recent chapters of this walk that I've been on, I had the good fortune of being introduced to a nature-based purpose guide, essentially an individual who has studied various eco-based methods for healing and wholing ourselves, and was fortunate enough to also have studied with some brilliant indigenous elders. It seemed like a walk I was meant to go on, and the world that opened up to me was one I wanted to share with you because it was such an extraordinary experience.
Personally, more and more of this has become part of my own work, meaning how I approach my own depth and growth, the walk that I'm on, but also the walk that I support others with as well. And so with that in mind, through a connection, some work that I was doing with a company devoted to men's work, I was introduced to our walking partner for this conversation, Tim Corcoran. I had just one conversation with Tim and simply said, I'm in. I ended up working with Tim one on one for a little more than three months on his Finding Purpose program. There was a ton of moving parts to this, but this part of my journey culminated in going on a vision quest, which was an immensely powerful experience, as was this whole path. Well, I invited Tim to sit down, to sit down with me, with us, because I wanted to share this leg of my journey openly with you, and that requires my guide to join us and add quite a bit of explanation to some of the things that we're unfolding, as well as the fact that he can share his own journey and wisdom, and let's see what else is meant to unfold in this conversation.
Well, as we dove into it, as we were letting it unfold, well, we realized that we had a whole lot of ground to cover. And so this is actually just part one of two of this conversation. And so with that, Tim Corcoran is the founder of Purpose Mountain, where he offers nature-based purpose guidance to support people with a love for wild nature, who feel a deep yearning to discover their purpose. Tim also serves as the co-director of Twin Eagles Wilderness School, an organization he co-founded with his wife, Janine Tidwell, in Sandpoint, Idaho in 2005, and is dedicated to facilitating deep nature connection, mentoring, cultural restoration, and inner tracking. He's a leader of vision quest, holistic rights of passage and men's groups. Tim has been facilitating spiritual initiations in the wilderness since 1999, healing the cultural rift between the mainstream and indigenous cultures, transformational consciousness work, the spiritual journey, ancestral work, deep nature connection, family and health. These are all deep commitments in his life. Tim is a heart-centered father of two brilliant sons, and a husband to a magnificent wife while living in the pristine Sandpoint, Idaho.
I want you all to please enjoy this conversation. If you are new to On This Walk, do me a favor, hit that subscribe button wherever you're listening to this, and walk with us for a while. Now, let's walk with purpose. Let's walk with Tim, and I'll admit this one's a bit of a journey unto itself.
Alright, so Tim, we decide that we're gonna sit down today. We're going to get into this deep conversation around purpose, the journey I've walked with you, the vision quest, and you sent me an article or a, a piece of writing from the Zen and the Art of Hunting, saying what the Buddha did not know about hunting. That's definitely not what I was expecting to, to begin today, but as I read it, and you and I were just chatting a little bit, there's something, even to use your words, kind of juicy in what's here. And so I'm just gonna read this for everybody. It's what the Buddha did not know about hunting. My favorite poem was written by Gary Snyder, entitled, with a quote from an ancient Chinese poet, Shang Yen. One should not talk to a skilled hunter about what is forbidden. And by the Buddha, it reads, a gray fox, female, nine pounds, three ounces, 39 and five eighths inches long with tail, peeling skin back. Kai reminded us to chant the Shingu first, cold, pelt, crinkle and musky smell mixed with dead body odor starting, stomach content, a whole ground squirrel, well chewed, plus one lizard foot, and somewhere from inside the ground squirrelled a bit of aluminum foil, the secret and the secret hidden deep in that.
And now the passage reads, though the Buddha forbade the killing of sentient life meant to include mammals as well, the skilled hunter, a true hunter knows something the Buddha does not. The gray fox and Snyder's poem is a true hunter, and the ground squirrel, it killed and ate was also a hunter of grasses and seeds. And as one works back from the stomach to stomach, there is a secret, a secret hidden deep in that. The gray fox and the skilled hunter have no need of what is forbidden by the civilized profit, precisely because they have not been corrupted by civilization in the first place. Only civilized humanity requires profits, those who prophecy against their people, because only civilized humans have lost the transcendence, humility and oneness with nature. The skilled hunter is owned by nature. He needs no profit. Let me stop there. So Tim, I am curious for you just to begin as to the, you know, reading this passage as you did, there is something that spoke to you in its words, and there is a little bit of provocation in the way that it's presented. But what was that truth that started to speak through to you?
Tim (00:06:53):
And yeah, really a disclaimer, Luke, that I don't wholeheartedly agree with every word as it's presented. That said, I do believe there's a deep truth that's being presented, right? I think it's right there where you ended, right? That where, where he says the gray fox and the skilled hunter have no need of what's forbidden by the civilized profit, precisely because they've not been corrupted by civilization. And yeah, corruption is a bit strong in the first place. Only civilized humanity requires profits. Those who prophecy against the people, because only civilized humans have lost the transcendence, humility and oneness with nature. The skilled hunter is owned by nature. And I think that last statement right there, only civilized humans have lost the transcendence, humility and oneness with nature. The skilled hunter is owned by nature. That speaks to a place that we can arrive at when we take this journey of deep nature connection of nature-based soul connection work, soul awakening work that is worldview shifting, that shifts, uh, ones and certainly has shifted my, and I think yours too, entire perspective on life.
And there is, I would suggest, a developmental need for us as human beings, to experience that transcendence and oneness that comes when we connect down, when we connect to what some would call the lower world, when we connect with the earth and with soul, that is quantitatively different from the ascension journey, the journey of classical meditation and enlightenment. Nothing against that, I think it has a lot to offer. I believe it's not complete, and there's a completeness that we can experience as human beings when we connect deeply with nature and with soul that this passage speaks to. And yeah, in some strong language, in a really deep way that I hope our, our listeners might open themselves to that possibility.
Luke (00:08:54):
I remember quite a while ago, I've heard him talk so many times, so I don't know if you originally said it in the Ted Talk or, or elsewhere, but Sir Ken Robinson speaking about the education system and how we educate the creativity out of kids. And what just kind of evoked in, in what you were saying is that we educate the nature right out of kids
Tim (00:09:11):
And the wildness, the nature, and the wildness.
Luke (00:09:14):
And that's actually what I'm getting at, right? Is that it's, I don't mean the, you know, specifically the education, but education, society, family. I mean, all of these things are pulling us towards literally the manmade world. And as we move in that direction, there is that wildness that is the true nature of how we enter into this world that does slip from us. And same as you. I'm not saying there's not incredible innovation and all the things that, that are wonderful about what we can do as men, right? As mankind. I get that. And we seem to feel like we get out of alignment with our true nature, which leads to, I know some of the questions that we'll deal with and, and handle today. I think that's part of my journey is that I went much more kind of in the very traditional fashion of what did I wanna do in this world? What did I wanna achieve? And kind of headed out in that type of direction. And I did lose that connection with nature. I lost that part of me that had this spark in this connection that was so much deeper than what my days were being filled by. There, it has been something through my journey prior to working with you, with working with you that has been world-shifting, was the, the way that you put it, right, worldview shifting. And I'm curious for you to elaborate on this, but I would say for me, it was not, God, there was so many things. So I don't wanna make like any generic, overly generic statements in this, but there were so many things, such as what you're able to witness in nature when you get into full connection and dialogue with a tree, or a decaying leaf, or a plant that's just coming to bloom, or a plant that's losing its leaves and losing that last light, you start to see so much of life in what you're witnessing, and then you begin to see that life within you. It's, right, it's the fractals where that, which, you know, these little patterns are being repeated in everything, and nature shows us those fractals and reflects it back to us within ourselves so that we can begin to see the way that this is playing out within our lives. I could get into the sense of connectedness and I could get into a hundred other things, and to me it's just, it is that sense of connectedness, which restores sort of the vibrancy of your own nature and the way you get to begin to listen to that nature ring within you.
Tim (00:11:39):
Absolutely. It's a part of our journey back to wholeness. And that's where I go back to, I really see that the deep connection to nature is, I just honestly believe more and more as every day passes, Luke, that it's a, it's a developmental need that we have as human beings to feel a sense of belonging to the earth, right? To feel a sense that, that I am nature. I have a friend with an organization, he calls it we are nature rising, that's the name of his organization. We are nature rising, but that sense of, people talk about it this way, right? Sometimes when they come out for a journey with me afterwards, they'll come back saying, it was like there was a veil between me and the natural world, and it was invisible. I didn't know it was there. But after I took the journey, I, I'm back now, and I see very clearly that that veil was there, and it, it was a veil of disconnection. It was preventing me from a full experience of connection and wholeness and oneness with nature. And now that veil was lifted, and that changed everything for me. I realize, you know, not to get too esoteric here, but yeah, I realize I am the rock. I am the mountain. I am the lake. I am the little butterfly. I am the little, the shining light off the, you know, off the do-drop on the, on the quaking aspen leaf.
And the beautiful thing about nature as mirror, you know, that's, that's one way I like to talk about this, this topic, is that it's unfiltered. It's not a human being. There's no political correctness. It has no worries whether it's gonna push buttons or upset someone. It will simply present oneself back to oneself purely, and then it's up to you to either be willing to accept that or not. So nature can become the most incredible teacher, really far greater, in my experience than any human being as it presents ourselves to us and our sense, our, the truth that, that we are interrelated with all things, right? If, and that's a common thing these days, you know, all things are connected. That's becoming more and more mainstream for us, which is good. But there's two sides to that. You know, there's all the beauty in life that, oh, it's great to feel interconnected with. And then there's all of the atrocities of life and myself that, that I have to face if I'm gonna really embody that, which is a big journey.
Luke (00:14:05):
It is a big journey, and it's a, it's a big healing journey. But I also, not to skip ahead to where we think we may be getting into, but it's part of what I've come to know of, of what this journey is, is that part of our purpose is the healing work that we're doing, because we're healing it, not only for ourselves, but we're healing it for nature, and we're healing it for the collective in that process. It's a very, very powerful part of doing this work with it, you know, with ourselves, with each other. I just wanted to comment on, you know, a handful of things and actually tie it to something you brought up before. I love the comment of, you know, that there's this unfiltered truth that comes from nature. It will deliver the hard truth to you. And I mean, I laugh because as soon as you said it, I'm picturing experiences I shared with you of different times where I was getting lectured by trees, I was being, you know, another tree telling me that I could not sit there anymore. That that was no longer my spot. I had to move, I'm getting kicked out. And we'll get into a little, a little bit of that later.
You know, it's amazing what you begin to pick up on, and it's because of what you mentioned of that veil beginning to lift. And we'll even talk about a specific practice that many practices, but one in particular that supports that. But it's that all of a sudden you don't view it as being in nature. You don't view it as, I'm gonna go out to nature. You view it as, I am nature. We are nature. And at that point, it's as if all of a sudden the veil lifts and it's like, oh, yeah, I am part of all of this, and you can feel it. And I think this was one of the aspects of my journey that became so important was that as you do that and as you gain, then the mirror of nature, the teacher of nature, witnessing these fractals, I had taken that ascendant path that you described before. I have thoroughly enjoyed my path with mindfulness and with Buddhism and with other related wisdom traditions out of kind of those fields. And it opened up a tremendous amount for me. And there was something that was incomplete. And I recognize that, that incompleteness came from, if the ascendent path helps us to transcend or to move above, to move beyond in certain respects, what that sometimes feel like, feels like it negates, is a sense of self or a sense of what is a bit of our uniqueness or the what, what is the unique energy that I hold as part of this whole ecosystem? And when you get into more of that nature based path and the veil lifts and you start to connect, and those mirrors come back to you, it is nature that can mirror back to you, your true nature. And the ascendent path tends to, not saying universally, because I understand there's all sorts of different ways of approaching the ascendent path, I'm just describing my personal experience in the way that it unfolded for me, never got me that mirror.
It took me to different places that provided beautiful insights and clarity in many ways, but it didn't give me that. And I remember even using the phrase with you at one point of, it's like you're beginning to discover your unique energetic fingerprint. And I think that even came from something from, Hal Stone and, and his voice dialogue work, right? And it's, it's something about the way that nature can mirror that back to you so that you begin to understand that unique energetic fingerprint that every single one of us is, and understand how it's beginning to connect to the whole of the ecosystem around us too.
Tim (00:17:33):
Exactly. Exactly. Because even I was just having this conversation with my wife, even the question, what is my purpose? Boy, there can be a lot of assumptions within that, and we could spend days breaking down that question, and on underlying assumptions, but that can be perceived by some in a very individualistic separatist mindset. What is my purpose? Who am I in this world? How do I self-actualize? You know? And I think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, and that when he first presented it, self-actualization was at the peak of the pyramid, right? And later, after he spent time, actually, I found this out, Luke, with Flathead Indians on the Flathead Indian Reservation, he adjusted his model, he adjusted his model and took out, well he said that beyond self-actualization, there was another tier, which was, how do I actualize my responsibility to the earth and to my people? And when I've sat with the old, you know, traditional earth-based elders, native American elders and others, that's always the end point of, of the deep journey of life. It's not self-actualization. It's how do I give myself fully to my people and my earth? And that is actually a more evolved way of looking at our potential as human beings. It is in interrelationships. So maybe the question isn't, who am I? Maybe the question is, who am I in relationship to the entire web of life, to my people, to my community? Which involves, you know, humans and trees and mountains and lakes, et cetera, et cetera.
Luke (00:19:14):
There's many different ways to go off of that. I'm gonna start with this one, because I've actually thought about this, and I think I've had this conversation with a few people of, before we would even ask a question like, what is my purpose? How do you begin to broaden that so that you're taking it at the most macro view of what is life? Therefore then what is maybe the purpose of all life? What is our collective purpose if we start to bring it down to maybe a humanity level or even just a, a mammal level? I don't know. And then just keep stepping it down until you then get to, okay, what is my purpose? Because now it, to, to where you just went is what is my purpose in relation to, if we start it, what is my purpose? The egocentric, you know, perspective, then we are taking it out of relationship with others, and we're only looking at ourselves when in fact, that's, nothing about that is true.
We are completely wrapped, right? We're completely wrapped within this greater, you know, sphere of, of, of ecosystem and energy that's always around us. And so we need to understand that context. And if we begin to kind of walk it down through those relational levels, we can then ask something that feels like what is really unique, because I do wanna feel that uniqueness in that, that true nature that exists within me in relation to what I'm a part of. And I think it's also then that what I'm a part of that gets missed when we start with just the self, with the, the egocentric view. It's funny, I just, I just had this conversation with somebody of how, you know, we've got the hero's journey and the heroin's journey. The hero's journey is a very individualistic type journey, right? It's the, the male conqueror going out and then we'd slay the dragons. We come back, you know, single-handedly is the guru of wisdom, right? And then the heroin's journey is much more of that reconnection to the belonging, bringing together again, the uniting, uniting into wholeness. And it's a very, very different type of journey. And we need to start to kind of balance these things to recognize we can still be unique and we can still be in relation. It can be this full interconnected web so that we can feel these pieces altogether again. It's part of what came up for me, because I feel this question of what is purpose? What is my purpose? Is something that is so prevalent right now. I'm curious for kind of your views as to why it's so prevalent. I think we've covered part of that, which is our separation from nature and from true nature. Uh, but I'd love to just hear some of your perspective of, why now? Like, why, why does it seem like the purpose conversation is coming up as much as, you know, maybe it ever has, or at least certainly within the, the zeitgeist right now?
Tim (00:21:48):
Yeah, yeah. Well, that's a, that's a really important question, Luke, and I think it ties into everything we're talking about. I'm forgetting who wrote it right now, but, uh, there was a book called, uh, we've had a hundred years of psychotherapy and the world hasn't gotten any better.
Luke (00:22:03):
I remember it as a quote, I don't remember the book, but I remember a quote.
Tim (00:22:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I believe it was a, a Youngian scholar. We could look it up and find the author. But the basic premise, just even of the title is, and it's a great book, is that, you know, and I would actually add to that, we've had, here in the west, we've had, what, 50 plus years of ascension-based meditation that's gotten pretty prevalent in, in mainstream. And I'm not sure the world's gotten any better. So what's missing? You know, really what's missing? And of course, I think what we're offering right now is that what's missing is soul. What's missing is, is purpose. I mean, as we see the world falling apart, I mean, my God, like COVID, the global pandemic. I live in Idaho. We have, every year we have horrible wildfires where actually this year we're having a real blessing. We don't have it bad, but most years, this time in August, our skies are filled with smoke.
I mean, it is literally like an Armageddon where it's not safe to go outside from the wildfires of like DC and California and central Washington. The world's literally on fire. I mean, look at our economic and political turbulence that's present. The systems seem to be falling apart, or at least clearly not functioning and serving us in the ways that we thought they might have been. And that's true on the meta level, it's true on the individual level. People are getting more and more tuned in with look at, look at just the consciousness of trauma and how there's trauma informed this, and trauma informed that these days, look at the amount of healing work that's happening. I mean, people are recognizing things are really not well for us as a society. Things are breaking down. There was a recent report that just stated, oh, yeah, that was, there was this one that globally, they've now determined that rain water is now not safe to drink on a global scale, and that should be a complete show stop.
Why has the world not stopped? And just blasted that on every billboard and said, hey, wait a minute. Something is not right here. To answer your question, why, why purpose, why now? I think more and more people are seeing that the destruction of the earth, the destruction of communities, the destruction of families, the destruction of the human individual psyche is more in the public eye than it ever has before. It's also has been growing. I mean, look at, you know, global temperatures and climate change. I mean, obviously these things are increasing destruction in this way. And, and we, we have to face it. It's, um, I guess we don't have to, we could, we could go to, you know, just sleep our, stay asleep at the wheel till, till the bitter end, I guess. I don't know. But many people are waking up and saying, okay, how can I help?
This is not right. Okay, sure, I can ascend, I can experience meditation. It's great. It's a great break from the craziness and the suffering of the physical world. But then I'm come back and, and then now I've, I've got kids, I have a wife, I have children in my community I care about. What are future generations going to experience? What can I actually give to this? What is my, what am I gonna leave behind? It's all temporary and, don't worry about it, and I'll meet you on the other side. No, you know, I care about this earth. This earth has helped me. So I love it so much, and I want to leave the best gift I can to this planet. I think more and more people are waking up to that or asking those questions, why the heck am I really here? Was it, is it just random? Was it just an accident? No, there, there must be a reason why I was taken, why I have taken birth at this time. There must be something I have to offer. That's what I hear from the people I work with, and the people who reach up to me and, and conversations like this, Luke, that need, that yearning just grows and grows. And so that is hopeful to me.
Luke (00:25:57):
It is hopeful. And I do feel, and I mean, I, I've felt directly myself that that yearning and that longing and you know, obviously we, we talked about the ascension path in a very different way a moment ago, but therefore, I'm gonna quote, you know, or, or lean on some of the Buddha's work. Anyhow, after we, you know, already told them not to talk to hunters, is just that when you're going through that path, right? And what you begin to look at is the recognition of suffering. One of the very first things that we need to do is to become aware of it. We need to become aware of the suffering. And to, you know, part of the point that you're making, we have been to one degree or another, been able to sort of bury our heads in the sand, at least to some degree, at different parts of, of this, you know, this, this, uh, period of time. And it is now so front and center in so many different ways of all of the things that are suffering, that are falling apart, that are in pain. And I like that frame of beginning more and more people beginning to kind of ask, what are we doing, like from the suffering? What are we doing to create this? What are we doing that's that's doing all these things and, and manifesting this way? And what are we going to do? Or what am I going to do? And even if they just look at that from a very localized sense, maybe it's not about, you know, they're caring about their earth right now. Maybe it's not caring about all peoples. Maybe it's just beginning to care about family or being able to care about neighbor or the persons next to them they see every day. Or the person that helps them at Dunkin Donuts in the morning, whatever it is, right? And whatever that is there begins to, there's something here, and I even actually see this on the, the full political spectrum, uh, that, that are constantly boring with each other right now.
There still is that question of how are we going to make things better? How are we going to start to improve? And more people, not across the board, more people are also now taking a level of at least self responsibility to look within themselves or at themselves as to what is my role? What am I going to do different in the midst of everything else that might be going on in their lives? And I think we're part of that stems for, and I'll, uh, to me, maybe this is just me, a little bit of transference because of, of how deeply I connected this, but it's this sense of lost connection to me that is so deep. And so, uh, you know, to me, why are we asking our purpose? It's because we literally feel something missing. We feel like something isn't right. We don't feel like something is, you know, something is out of alignment in the way that we are processing and feeling.
And so that yearning also comes from a place of angst that is growing within us, and we can use that in a really positive way as opposed to distracting ourselves and numbing it, and all of the other things that we do usually in the face of discomfort. And I think more people are beginning to lean into, wait a minute, what's, what is that? And I mean, the number of people I hear question, isn't there more than this? What's missing for me? Where, you know, where, where is this, where does this all go? I hear that more and more and more. And so, you know, the reason why I'm hosting these types of conversations, and, and, and many of the, you know, uh, there's many reasons for the podcast, but part of this is beginning to shine a light on these questions and these dialogues to let other people know, other people, a lot of other people are asking these things. And so let's talk about what, you know, for a long time wasn't spoken about. And let's bring that into the light.
Tim (00:29:15):
And I would add, if I can just jump in, that not only are many other people asking those questions, but people are starting to find real answers. And I think part of what I'm, wanna offer is that it's that desire, you know, that yearning, that angst that you're talking about, Luke, that's, look, we all experience that. I certainly experience that, you know, and so what really is the antidote to that, you know, to my tendencies to wanna check out on YouTube or Facebook or, you know, alcoholism or drugs or sex. I mean, there's so many different things, right? What is that really speaking to? Part, part of the work, and I, and I know you know this, is that when we slow down enough, when we take all of the destructive behaviors and maybe lower case, A addictions or maybe upper case, A addictions, when we remove those and just be with ourself for what, and actually feel what's happening in our bodies, we realize, whoa, like I have this huge tendency to want to avoid a particular feeling or emotion.
And wow, I have this tendency to, to do that in, in this particular way. So why is that anyway? What the heck's going on in my life? What is happening? What is so out of alignment that, that I would have that strong of a desire to check out, to numb out in small or big ways? And what I've found consistently for myself and, and others, is that it is belonging. That is the antidote to desire, right? And to that kind of desire and belonging to what? Belonging to place, like having a sense that I am this place. I mean, for me, it's what we now call in North Idaho, the traditional lands of the Kalispell people. And it's belonging to the earth. It's knowing that I am of this earth and that matters and belonging to human community. I have my brothers, I have my sisters, I have the kids who I mentor.
I have my elders who guide me, right? But it's that sense of belonging, which I think is even deeper than connection. You know, I'm sure folks are familiar with Brene Brown's work. Um, it's vulnerability that, that is the cost, right? To experience connection. And it's, uh, a long term buildup of connection that creates a sense of belonging. As people experience that and that sense of wholeness, that sense of interconnectedness through belonging. Wow. It's, it isn't that interesting? All my destructive behaviors, they kind of had, the wind that was pushing those sail is, is kind of gone, oh gosh, wow. What is this telling me? May maybe this is, maybe this is a good thing. Maybe this is worth investing in more.
Luke (00:32:05):
Belonging. It is worth investing in. Although, let me say it as it's worth, first, investing within, investing within ourselves. You see, all too often based on societal influences, pervasiveness of social media, how everything is positioned for advertising and fame, and even the news and political parties, it's all positioned as here's what you need to do to belong to us. But all of that is both focused outside of yourself and it's positioned as exclusive. Like you need to prove yourself to gain access, that is not belonging. All those influences are doing what they're doing is trying to get you into a state of longing so that you're willing to go along with whatever their rules, their litmus tests, the standards that they have. When we give into these influences, we're giving our power away. We're giving our power over to the influences outside of us, instead of the greatest influence that lies within us, our consciousness, our own essence, our true nature, our soul.
In my journeys, over the past several years, by far, one of the most impactful lines of study, if you can even call it study, has been in Christ Consciousness. You'll actually be meeting my guide, my teacher, who's both deeply rooted in Christ Consciousness and also strongly influenced by indigenous wisdoms and traditions in the coming months. Anyhow, through this focus on Christ Consciousness, which to be clear is not actually specifically or solely related to Jesus, the figure known as Jesus. It's more a connectedness to our higher selves or our pure consciousness, and the way in which we then relate to the world and this life from that space. Paramahansa Yogananda often talked about how Christ Consciousness was exemplified in not just Jesus, but Buddha, Krishna, and many of the other ancient masters. In fact, many considered Yogananda himself to be an extraordinary example of Christ Consciousness.
But again, as I come back again, through this journey with Christ Consciousness, there is this recognition that belonging is first and foremost an inner journey. Because belonging is about your longing to be. It's your longing to be authentic to your true nature, to have your integrity be your wholeness to your soul's path, and not to the outer influences. Then it includes being who you are within this life and accepting yourself for it. Others begin to accept you as you are because you exude this wholeness, this congruence, and this peace within who you are, your completely comfortable in your own skin. You need to first belong to yourself. This has been a key element of my journey and another major driver behind this podcast. This is a journey in wholeness. And to each of you connecting to that which you are, feeling the joy of who you are with all of your weirdness and idiosyncrasies, everything about you, and bringing the unique gift of who you are and the qualities that you emanate to the world.
When we start celebrating this path, this uniqueness of everyone celebrating our differences as much, if not more than our similarities, when we celebrate those who turn inward and focus on integrity to their wholeness, to their soul, when we celebrate those that are doing the hard work of healing, those that are turning towards their pain and hurts, those that are excavating their inner landscape to get to the core of who they are and tapping into the courage to give that truth away to the world, when we celebrate that type of being in this world, we'll recognize we already belong. In fact, we always have. For now, belonging, like much of what we talk about on On This Walk, is an inner journey. First and foremost, let us belong to our wholeness, to our souls, to our connection, to whatever source we believe in that drives this whole thing called life. Let's start there and extend our acceptance to others who are trying to do the same as we learn to fully accept ourselves on this journey. Keep your focus on your longing to be, your longing to be you, to keep your focus on your own unfolding. Give your energy to this and watch what begins to emerge within and around you.
What you said before. And I, I don't want to, uh, kinda lose this in the conversation because I think it's a really important thing. I've said this on show's past, silence and stillness were two of the most terrifying things for me, like ever, about seven, eight years ago. And what you just described, right, is that when we're able to put all the distractions aside and be with ourselves, we can start to become aware of what some of those tendencies, emotional patterns are that we have been avoiding and hiding and running from. And so for most people, though, I know the conversation I have when people find, I've been a meditator for 10, 12 years now, and, uh, it's not uncommon of, you know, for me to sit down and meditate for 50 minutes, 60 minutes, an hour, 15 longer, right? And they're, how could you possibly do that?
I go, you know, I go insane in two, three minutes. And I think it's a question that you framed in there, which I think is so important, is even if you're not an experienced meditator, even if you're doing nothing more than three minutes of deep breathing, to ask that question of what would have me, what would have me check out, what would have me disconnect? What would have me trying to avoid this feeling? What am I running from? So when we start to get into, you know, what is causing this, where does this come from? Why am I so uncomfortable being with myself? We're only always with ourselves, even when we're in a run full of people at the end of the day, right? And so it's to, to frame certain questions so that initially maybe you can begin to feel it like an exploration, just like you're going out into the wild is, well, you sort of are going into the wild when you go into yourself.
Very much so. Right? And so it's, it's just that frame that I wanna offer because I think it's a very important part of, of right, supporting people on that journey. Uh, this other piece for me, and I, I only because I wanna use this in, in language that I would frame it around when you take it to the deeper level of belonging, for me, when I talk about connection, to me it is a connection to source. And there's, there's multiple ways of looking at source. There is certainly the divine source, the, you know, the big source of, of whatever it is each of us believe that we are connected to. There is that source of soul that exists within every single one of us, that life force that's right here. And then there is this source of life that is all around us, you know, held by nature around us and within us, and on the land that we are on at any given time.
So that it is this very, very deep sense of I am connected here, I am connected to this life, I am connected to this life force, this energy that is coming through me so that it is something very, very deep. Now we're already starting to get off into the fun, esoteric lands and everything else of how we're talking about all this, but this is one of those things that we can use as many words as possible, but until you are in a place to experience it, it's just not the same. So there's so many things that I want to get into, but for now, lemme bring in this notion of the soul wanderer because this is something that was so important to my journey. It is something that does lift that veil between us and nature that you alluded to before, and gives us that, that window, that door that opens the portal, that's what I'm going for, that opens that portal into that deeper connection with source. And so, uh, let me just kind of, let me pause for a minute and say to, you know, ask to you just simply, if you could describe what is a soul wander so that we've got some frame and then we can talk about some of our own experiences, soul wandering, and we can pick apart some of, of what has unfolded.
Tim (00:40:07):
Sure, yeah. So yeah, Luke, I mean, obviously as you know, the soul wander is a, is a particular practice that I work a lot with. I practice it myself regularly and, you know, yeah, I, I definitely encourage, um, the folks I work with to, to embody that. In short, a soul wander is time spent alone, quote unquote in nature alone, meaning no, ideally, without other humans or pets or mountain bikes or kayaks, right? Just a human being with the feet on the earth for at least ideally, you know, at least an hour or two, they can be longer. Traditional soul wander would actually be sun up to sun down. But with a couple of specific intentions. I mean the, but most basic intention would be connecting with soul. And so yeah, as you just said, trying to define soul is a complete paradox and impossibility.
But with that said, a loose definition that is not true, but might be helpful is soul is the place within us where we experience ourselves interconnected with all things. And if there's a place in us that knows our purpose in life, it would be our soul. But that's not true, but it's helpful. Okay. So the intention is to connect with that, to connect with soul. And it's a sole wander. It's not a soul hike, it is not a soul expedition, it is a soul wander. So how is a wander different from a hike? Well, a hike is going from point A physically to point B physically. A wander is time spent outside in wild, in wild nature without any particular physical destination. And really without time, like it's, um, ideally it's an opportunity that we give ourselves where we can actually put time aside and not worry about it.
And in order to facilitate that, it's helpful to have, you know, a longer period of time, which is a comical to say, but, but yet true. So going out into perhaps a beautiful forest landscape or a beautiful desert landscape with the singular intention of I wanna connect with my soul. I believe there is a place where I am interconnected with all things and that has a greater intelligence that can guide me on my path, on my walk, on this walk. And I'm open. Sometimes people will bring a particular intention that a person might have a specific question they want answered, and that's fine, and it can serve in that way and it can be very powerful. But the most powerful soul wonders tend to be the ones where there is the least amount of specific intention, if you will, that this overarching intention is, I want to connect with my deepest essence of want to connect with the place where I'm interconnected with all things.
And a mindset of I'm willing to receive feedback on who I am and how I am right now. I am willing to grow, I'm willing to face myself, I'm willing to face discomfort, I'm willing to face my vulnerability, I'm willing to face my power, show me what I need to move forward on my path and then going, and uh, it's, it's about practicing, uh, the sensory awareness, starting with the five senses. You know, I get a lot of people that are very excited about intuition this and intuition, and that's great. Hey, I love it as much as anybody else, but my elders, what they always taught me was intuition is the sixth sense. And it comes as the culmination of our five senses, eyes, ears, nose, mouth, skin being practiced and embodied. And it's only when we're fully present in our five senses that our sixth senses can emerge.
It's practicing the quiet mind. So it's a, it's a walking meditation where the focus maybe is not on the breath, but the focus is on the senses. You know, it's the old quote, uh, lose your mind and come to your senses, right? It is that walking meditation and it's an invitation into a reciprocal conversation with the more than human world. It is, so the mindset is nature can speak to me, soul can speak to me through nature, and I can speak back and I want to have a deep connection. I want to have a deep relationship. That means more than just asking one question and getting one answer, that means I'm gonna have a whole conversation, a whole back and forth. I might struggle with it, I might disagree on this point, or be open to that, or challenge that, you know, there's a whole conversation that can unfold.
Luke (00:44:39):
There's so much that's important about the way in which we engage in the soul wanders because it, the intentionality that we bring into it is to be present, to be with the experience that we are about to have, not even knowing what it's about to be. And, you know, setting that intention to allow yourself to receive, to allow whatever it is that's meant to come to you and to be mirrored to you to to do so. Uh, all very, very important part. And I remember, you know, many times of, of just beginning those soul wanders and making sure I'm taking that time, you know, and it's, it was a little bit different. I'm, people have heard me joke on the show, you know, I went out, I used to hike eight, 10 miles and, you know, that was great. And then I get into soul wandering and you know, the next thing I know I'm coming home after five hours, my wife is asking me, how far did you go? I'm like, about a mile and a half, two miles, leaving for five hours.
Right? But it's getting into, you know, you you, you put your feet on the trail as it were, or on the initial steps that you're taking into the wilderness, and it is bringing these tensions forward. It can be saying them out loud if that supports you and gaining the kind of the sacredness of, of what you're about to do. And I, I love the, the way that you describe, you know, initially the use of the five senses. I've taught this mindfulness perspective that, you know, we've got these beautiful senses that when we really truly tune into them, as opposed to just taking in all the information that's being thrown at us, right? If we truly get present to what those senses are connecting to, it brings us to presence. And in presence, all of a sudden the past fades away, the future fades away, your agenda fades away.
All of those things fade away so that your intuition can rise. And I was blown away by, I mean, right on from the very, very first soul wander that I went to. And I went on feeling, I won't say messages per se, that actually did come in my first wander, but feeling these nudges, which I think were as much sensory as they were intuitive at that time of, no, no, no, no, don't go that way. Try to go this way. Try to follow this, get, be curious with what's unfolding for you. So as an example, just because I, hopefully people love the humor and the kind of visual of this is that I'm up at the, the top of a bridge and it's this big boulder field, and I decide those really cool little like, kind of cave that's carved out by where these couple of rocks have folded in on each other.
And I'm sitting in the cave and I mean, I can literally feel the presence of like bear energy because I'm hibernating in there and I feel like I'm gonna have to move soon. I know this. But before I do, there's a squirrel that I'm watching kind of like look at me over the rock and then goes behind another rock and it looks at me some other way and then it goes and it starts to trail off. Well, as it trails off, the sun was directly on the opposite side of it so I could no longer see it. But all I see is this squirrel hopping as if it was Peter Pan's shadow down these rocks. And I'm, I just get curious. I'm like, Peter Pan is just leading me this way. I gotta get, I gotta get outta here. And I get up out of this, this place that I'm in and I follow the shadow and I'm now hopping down these rocks as if I'm Peter Pan.
Just having fun and being playful and being curious until I ultimately get led very far off a trail to be able to have kind of my first intimate experience with what was a guardian tree and telling me about all of, of what it has, the space that it has held and what that means, and reminding me that I already have my guardians around me. And so anyway, it's just this notion of feel for the nudges, feel for the way your senses may be guiding you, even though your mind may want you to go somewhere else. Follow your senses, get primal with the way that you're moving through. Be curious with the nudges that are moving through. And then you'll find the spots that you are supposed to settle. And it may not be the first one. You may sit down just as I did in that little cave, and I knew within like a couple of minutes, like, no, this doesn't feel like it. And you know, I tried to hibernate a little while. It was nice, it was safe in there and just put messages in there. Well, let's not over interpret. And then you keep moving and all of a sudden you will know, like my Italian grandmother teaching a recipe, how much do you put in? You'll know, same thing when you're, when you are out and in nature, you'll know, you'll know when you're right where you're supposed to be and allow yourself to begin to tune in, you know. And Tim, I'm kind of curious, I mean, you, you obviously have not only guided so many people on this, but I'm curious about some of what you've experienced on soul wanders. Cause I have obviously at least 12, 13, 14 other stories I can share from this experience.
Tim (00:49:41):
Well, and, and, uh, happy to share, but let, let me back up and just use that as another launch point to, to make another point here for our listeners. So for you with like, okay, you had this tendency to want to stay in the cave and the protection and then here was squirrel, that you were able to slow down and listen enough and feel the nudge, as you said, Luke, to move, to step out of that safety. And I mean, that's a huge one right there. So what I would offer to our listeners is these sole, these messages, that's one message from, through your soul wander can be both instructive as well as like, it's kinda like going to the gym. I think this is, tell tell me if I've got this right, that for you, that was a practice that like, it stretched you a little bit to, to step out of the cave. The cave was safe. It, it felt maybe a little risky, and so you were exercising the muscle of taking a healthy risk. Would you agree with that?
Luke (00:50:36):
Absolutely. No. Uh, one just, I wanna answer that directly, but what you just said about building it, kinda like going to the gym, right? Is it building that muscle, building that muscle of being able to dialogue to follow the intuition? Uh, so I, you may expand on that, but yes, that was very, very true for me. And I think I'll give you even more context just to paint the picture. I went into that, that little cave, because I was hiking very early in the morning. It was still very cold outside. This was during, uh, the end of the winter. And there was, when I got up on top of the ridge that I was on, I hadn't anticipated, it was about a 20 mile an hour wind. So I went from cold to frigid when I got to the top of that ridge line.
And originally I sat down in a completely exposed area and I'm like, oh, this is not gonna happen. Like I am, I'm gonna be frozen bone here. And so I give that as context because I had justification, mental justification for what I was doing. And that's part of the pattern. So just like you're saying, everything here, everything you experience on a soul wander is relevant. It's all important. And so for me, it was coming out of the safety, but it was also the mental justification that put me in there in the first place. That was part of the story.
Tim (00:51:50):
Yeah. And your meta awareness of being able to see that, to recognize that. So my point is, yes, the soul wanders can give us messages or opportunities that are both like exercising at the gym, exercising the muscle of taking healthy risks, exercising the muscle of, of noticing my justifications that actually hold me back in life as well as, so it's both practice for it as well as direct instruction. Like, hey Luke, look at these ways where you, where you play it safe in life and, and take a risk and look at these ways where you justify this and assess that again, ask again. Is that really true? And, you know, how does all that work? Oh my gosh, that's a whole other conversation. But it works. And time and again, I can't tell you how many times for me, for you, for so many others that, I mean, that I've worked with and, and, and mentors and others, there is a greater intelligence out there that is guiding us forward, that is speaking through the natural world and has so much to offer us.
It's like wild nature is just full of treasures sometimes is how I think about it. It's just loaded with spiritual treasures and, and meaningful physical, all kinds of stuff just waiting for us. All we have to do is go out there and it's, it's all, it's like free for the picking, you know? It's soul and nature is so generous with the teachings and yeah, having a mentor can help. But anyhow, so yeah, so, so some examples from me, I mean, oh my gosh, there's so many through the years. I've gotta pick one. Well, a classic one that I think fits well into our conversation here might be the story of Grizzly Butte. And this happened, I don't know, seven, eight years ago or so for me, and just before I started my, my newer business, uh, Purpose Mountain. And it's interesting because there are a lot, as context, there are a lot of organizations and individuals, purpose guides out there, or purpose coaches, as it were, who are working to help other humans discover a sense of purpose that don't use nature. And there's great stuff there. It was kind of like a WTF moment. I, I was like, what? When I first learned that people like that in organizations like that even existed, I couldn't, I didn't get it. I was like, how is that even possible to connect a person with their vision and their calling, their purpose in life without utilizing the connection to the natural? I didn't understand. And of course, my life's been full of that for 20 plus years, and that was my bias, you know, going in.
So I, I got to a point in my life where the wilderness school, where I run Twin Eagles, that my wife and I started, you know, nearly 20 years ago where I wasn't getting the same spiritual fulfillment from it as I once had. And this had been building for a little while and, and I was like, Okay, this something's going on. It was a bit of an existential crisis for me as the wilderness school was the primary vehicle for me to deliver my purpose to the world and for me to, like, I mean, I got such spiritual fulfillment from it, Luke, in the early years. And then for me to get to a point where I was not getting that same fulfillment, doing the same work, it was a crisis. I mean, it just was, especially for me. And I've been very, very focused on spiritual fulfillment, really all my adult life. So I said, okay, I gotta try something else. So I had heard and had frankly had some synchronicity with an, an organization, I won't name any names, but it was an organization that focuses on cultivating purpose in non nature based ways.
And I said, okay, okay, okay, you know, you want different results, try a different approach, the whole thing, I'll go for it, you know, I'll go for it. So I do this course, it was like an online class, but some, some good solid mentoring in there and some good quality connection. And, and, and there was great stuff in there and it was, you know, moving along. And so when it came time to facilitate the process of connecting with something mystical, we were guided in a, in a guided meditation. And lo and behold, uh, what do they ask us to do in the meditation, but lay on the floor in our rooms and imagine the most beautiful place in nature, we can think of and travel to that place and, you know, make a connection to your purpose. And so I do this, you know, and I'm, I'm kind of having a moment of, I told you so, like, here they are.
They're, they're not nature based, but they're actually wanting to be nature based, you know, and, uh, anyhow, so in my meditation now, there I am on my office floor laying there and going through this process. I still remember this. And I chose in my imagination to travel to this mountain up, just up from my house, just a mile or so here in Idaho. And I hiked the mountain in my imagination. And when I got to the top, there was a wispy, you know, ghost-like, ethereal being that came down from this particular point that I remembered on the mountain and began telling me, uh, elements of, of my calling and, and how I was evolving and how the vehicle of the wilderness school was no longer fully capable of meeting my growing understanding of my purpose. And it was clearly incomplete. So there was definitely significant messages coming through, and yet it was incomplete.
And the being told me in my meditation on the office floor, that to get the full message, I would have to walk up to this mountain in physical reality. And there I would experience the full message. So I'm like, okay, kind of throw my hands up. And I'm like, okay. So we get through the rest of the class, you know, I, I kind of share my debrief and we talk about it and people are excited, da, da, da. And then I'm like, okay. The next morning at dawn, like, I'm, I'm not one to, to go against those kinds of messages. So I was like, okay, I'm, I'm going up. Now, this was a soul wander for me at this point, for sure. Another point of the soul wander is that it's important to mark the beginning with a threshold and mark the ending. So there is a known specific start, and there's a known specific end.
And that might be, you know, walking under an arch of a tree branch or crossing a, the threshold of a creek or what have you. This is a mount, now, mind you, a little more context is the place where I had been led to in my imaginative journey where the being, the wispy being of light had come down from, I had not actually been to that place physically, but I had seen it from a distance. This little mountain has like two peaks. And I had been to the first, but I had never been to the second. And it was the second peak where this wisp came from. And so the, the instruction that I had was to go to the second peak. So next morning I wake up, say a prayer, get clear, I was choosing to fast, which oftentimes is part of, of the soul wander.
Also, not speaking to humans is another good piece. And, and, and so I, I head up and, and there's no human trails. Um, this is a wild place up here in Idaho, there where I, there's known populations of, you know, mule deer and elk and moose, uh, black bear, grizzly bear. Um, it's, it's, I definitely live in a wild place. And so I'm walking up elk trails, which are pretty big trails. They're like, you know, two foot trails and they're hooves. These are, you know, 4, 5, 600 pound animals that tear up the ground when they walk. And it's, you can see their trails pretty easily. And they're nice and wide. They're about as wide as the humans. So they work well to, to go up. So I'm going up and it's an early fall morning, and the cool crisp air and the leaves are starting to turn and there's hues of, you know, red and, and orange and yellow and the leaves.
And as I get higher, I've got more of a view of, of the valley, and I can see the McArthur Lake, down below the lake just not far from my place. And, and so I make my way up and I get to that first peak. And at that time, so from that point forward, I was now in a physical place where I had never been before. And from that point, I remember the feeling in my body of like butterflies in the stomach of like, oh boy, something big is here. I don't know what it is. It was that sense I get when my senses are fully turned on. Some people have this as a fear-based response, like, oh my God is, you know, is there a cougar, an animal that might hurt me? You know? Um, and, and the, the kind of the Spidey senses, the Spidey tingle turns on.
And for me, I feel like my ears grow and that like, I'm able to hear a little bit more of the subtleties and smell and everything, right? The senses were fully turned on. And so I'm walking very slow using a practice we call the fox walk. I'm in my allies using my peripheral vision, not just my focus vision. And I'm very tuned in on as much as I can be on the spiritual level. And I'm, I'm walking, I'm walking, I'm walking, and I'm approaching this second peak. As I get closer, I'm remembering, oh yeah, this is the exact, I'm getting very close now to the spot where that wispy being came from. And I can feel like a spiritual tension kind of rising. And I go up and now I, I mean the image in my mind, even as I tell you this, Luke is so clear.
I remember there was wild cherry trees up there. There was a great cat bird that was flying there, of course, all the, uh, some Ponderosa pine and the Douglas firs and the big rocky out croppings. And I had to climb this one little kind of 10 foot rocky out cropping to, to make it up there. And I'm just now peeking this second peak, and it's almost like a little very small little meadow on top with, you know, the, the cliff falls away, not the cliff, but it's, you know, it's the top of a mountain. So the topography falls down from there. And as I get to the sort of in the northwest side of it, all of a sudden I hear this huge explosion come from just beyond where I can see just down the drop a little bit. And I've heard the sound before, something similar, that this is the sound of a, a large animal being surprised on its day bed where it's resting during the hot, uh, daytime hours being surprised, jumping off to go, because it, it can, thinks there might be a, you know, some sort of threat or something, or it's being disturbed.
But the volume and the intensity was much louder and stronger than any deer could make. So what do I assume? I assume elk because elk is like three times the size of a deer. I walk over and now I'm seeing probably 15 feet away from me is probably a 600 pound grizzly bear, mother, female grizzly bear, galloping off down this slope. And I'm telling you, it knocked me down. I mean, it knocked me on my butt. I fell back and my heart was just, oh my God. And she goes down this little valley, back up another hill. Now she's at eye level with me, probably 50 yards away with a little valley between me. And it's all kind of coming together. I'm like, like this is the exact spot where in my meditation, the day prior I had seen that wispy figure present itself to me.
And I am both, like, I've got my basic common sense on me, like, you know, don't disturb a grizzly bear, but it's already kind of too late. And I'm also very present. Like I've never seen a grizzly bear. I've never, I had never disturbed a grizzly bear like that, ever. And I spent tons of time in the woods. So this is a very rare experience to have just for any outdoors person. But to have it coincide synchronistically with the exact spot, just completely uncanny. It was just a high level synchronicity that still stands out, felt like a whole download moment that was happening of like the communication from the bear. I'm also mindful of not wanting to disturb it more and proper, you know, etiquette on a, on the physical level, not to put myself in physical danger, but she sat there for probably, I don't know, 10 minutes.
And I just sat and we just kind of locked eyes and it was a safe distance. And I even had a little voice in my head, where I, I actually had my camera with me. I'd taken my camera, oh, this would make such a good picture. And as soon as I even had the thought, I remember her kind of giving this low utterance of a low growl as if to say, don't do that, like, that's, that's not what this is about. And then I was immediately, you know, okay, yeah, you're right cause I got that part of me that wants to take the picture or whatever, you know? And so it's, I just sat with it Luke and coming down the mountain, you know, that's another thing was I, when I left, I was the one to choose to leave the interaction. And that's something when it comes to nature connection, that's important.
If you think of, for people like our listeners, think about how often when you see a wild animal, typically, I would bet that it's the animal that chooses to leave first. Not you, the human. That's because we're not actually honoring that creature and it's upset it, it doesn't want to be around us. But when we're, when we can learn to really be at one, when we can learn the actual practices of honoring animals, we're not perceived as a threat to them on a physical level. So a good landmark to shoot for is you being the one to leave the interaction first. It was days and days and it, it was a process. And frankly it took me going back to both the teachers at that non nature, you know, purpose class I was doing as well as some of my traditional teachers before I really got clear on what was, what the bigger message was.
But for me at the time, the bigger message, there was a huge message around healing. Bears are traditionally seen as, um, there's a strong correlation between bears being spiritual healers and my own spiritual healing journey that I was really, really ready for. For me it was a whole personal journey of needing to go back and face some childhood trauma on deeper layers that I had not yet. And that, that would ultimately become the key to my next layer of purpose expression, which is a big part of what I'm doing now. Vision quests and, and purpose mentoring and all of this stuff. It was a huge, huge piece. I mean, it was like almost a vision quest level experience in the context of a soul wander. And I mean, landmark spiritual moment for me, for sure.
Luke (01:05:40):
It's incredible. And, and what I want to kind of connect here for everybody and you know, what are this, what is the soul wander? What are these experiences that we're sharing have to do with purpose? And it's, it's where Tim, you just were, we're bringing this around kind of full circle, is that it points us in so many ways to what is more deeply going on with us at that moment. Right? And for, for me, I also recognize, I heard it actually just from what you described, is that when we go on these wanders that initially when we're kind of entering into this journey of purpose, if we continue to use that frame, there's a period of deconstruction that needs to unfold. And, you know, for you in that particular moment, in that particular experience, one of the things that you walked away with was healing that was not yet complete of something else that needed to kind of be unentangled and, and disentangled, right?
And, and separated once more in a healthy way, in a balanced way. So that, that would create space for then the, the, the other iteration or the newest evolution of purpose to take hold. And you know, I think that's one of the things I, I wanna remind everybody of or, or talk to everybody about, is that these walks towards purpose and towards meaning and towards happiness and peace and, and whatever it is that we wanna place, right? As, as what we're walking, uh, for and, and walking with. So often we've got to deconstruct, we've got to drop the attachments, we've gotta do the healing work, we've gotta do the things that have stood in the way as a further veil or even wall between us and what we're looking to experience. Right? And that's, that, that gets back to the very, very beginning of, of the conversation when we talk about what it was that was corrupted in society. Well it's, if we, if we broaden that word corrupted, it's what are the things that stand between us and nature? What are the things that stand between us and our true nature within nature? And that's, you know, you learn and see in so much of, I mean, nature is so good at mirroring that back to us now. Right? I remember, I mean, I remember, every time and I, you know, I, I want to, I wanna get, there's so much I still want to chat about, but you know, I remember in one of, you know, one of those wanders, so this was actually something else I wanted to mention about a wander to, to, to say this, is that also within those wanderings, wanders, pay attention to your noticings, to what it is that you are noticing. Because one of the wanders where I literally was beginning at the top of a mountain, I was at the top of, of something I thought I'd be climbing. And instead that was where I needed to park that day. I literally was guided to where I needed to park cause I couldn't go to where I thought I would, It was blocked and my entire wander was a descent. It was to literally descend into the darkness.
It was to descend into the shadow. And the way that I ended up getting there was I consistently was like, huh, that's something that I don't know why, that I'm noticing that, I'm noticing this particular branch. I'm noticing that the animals moved in this direction. I'm noticing as I stopped and I paused and I looked around, I remember very vividly on that one, I noticed this like red speck of something way, way, way, way down into this valley. And I'm like, why do I really need to know what that is? Well, I need to know what it is. I'm curious. And so sure enough, I follow that, that just kind of nudge. And it happens to be, I remember this, this was the one of those red balloons, right? Which, cause we had a conversation about that. And uh, and you know, part of that was okay, I was a little bit heartbroken over what ends up, out in, in these wild lands, but nonetheless tucked it away.
It had nothing to do with that for me. It had to do with, I needed to be down there. And my noticings drew me there. And as I followed through and I kept going further, I end up way off whatever trail I think I might have even originally been on. And this unbelievably massive dark like figure is drawing me towards. And the closer and closer I get, I realize that it is a tree that's fallen over and it's a root system. It's this huge, massive root system that's still covered in the dirt and in the mud and in the fraying of the roots. So you see it like, it's a, almost like this wooly mammoth of this, this huge figure. And so I realize like at that moment, like, I'm down, I don't know why, but I'm down here for you. And I sit down and I sit with this, this tree holding my back.
And in that kind of whispered dialogue back and forth, this route introduces itself as shadow route for me. And why that was critical was because there were things in my shadow, there were things around safety and security that needed to be released, that needed to be faced at that particular time. And it was literally just these messages of look around you. I mean, I mean, I was on a valley floor way off the, you know, off the, the beaten path. And everything was in this state of both decay and rebirth. Everything around me was decay and rebirth. And this shadow route is saying, Look around if you want the next thing to grow, this thing has to die. Meaning I had to let go. I needed to be able to release these things I'd been holding onto. And with that, I feel this, I mean, this was a cold day.
I don't even know if it was 25 degrees out, maybe 20 degrees out, uh, fahrenheit. And I get this warm breath over my shoulder that's like, and I look around, I'm like, the trees aren't moving. There's no wind going on. And there's no, I mean, I, if I had turned around and found your bear on my shoulder, it would not have surprised me. It was that visceral, right? And what it did was it forced me to look to my right. And I see this other root system that most of the dirt has fallen off of. And I get up and I realize that I'm done and I, I've thanked shadow root and, and, and he's given me, or she's given me, I'm not sure which, permission to move on. And I go over and it's this massive tree route that's fallen over.
It's completely up out of the ground. And I look on the other side expecting to see this massive, massive trunk. And there's nothing, it's as if the other tree had just, it was gone and evaporated into the ground. And then I look further and I realize that out of the root ball, one of the branches of the original tree had grown up out of it and grown like 30, 40 feet up into the air. And immediately it was a confirmation of the message that I just received that something had died so that this could have life. And it's like, so much of this gets mirrored back to us. And it was completely, completely relevant to what was going on. Y'all can decide, was that a message from nature? I don't care. It works, exactly the way you,
Tim (01:12:43):
Yeah, exactly.
Luke (01:12:44):
Take it.
Tim (01:12:45):
Yeah.
Luke (01:12:46):
It's the best psychotherapy I've ever seen. And so it's knowing that as we connect in this way, why is this so vital for purpose? As I said, it helps us remember what it is that has separated us from nature. Because our purpose is born and held by our true nature, our soul. There's periods of deconstruction and nature is, is brilliant at the way that it helps us understand that full cycle of life, of the decay and the birth and the, the regenesis that comes from the, the death that has occurred. It's the metaphors that are so bountiful that you couldn't even write them all down. It's the sense of connection that you develop and in connecting the nature this way and feeling like you belong there and, and connecting to all of these symbols and signs and messages that we're talking about, you actually begin to better understand the wild landscape that exists within you. And then, and then now we're onto something, right? As if we aren't already, but it's, we're on this path that helps us begin to understand what's existing within us and to find our way through the wild roots and, you know, not so well beaten path that exists within us so we can find our way back into it.
Tim (01:14:07):
Love it. So, so good. So I, I gotta comment on a few of those pieces, right? So, first is back to the healing journey, right? That, that was illustrated in my story and, and then yours as well. So I wanna point out to our listeners that, and this is really my philosophy on healing, right? And this goes back to that book, right? We've had a hundred years of psychotherapy in the world hasn't gotten any better. So if we're on the healing journey, and maybe that includes what modern therapy or men's circles, men's work or women's work, what have you, to what end is that journey happening? Like I could sit for the rest of my life at my men's group or in my therapist office and it, there would never be an end, Luke, there would never be an in and I, and I would be a better man for it.
I would come back a better husband, a better dad, you know, all of that for sure. But you know, more capable of giving and receiving love. But there is a risk of getting lost in that healing journey that I have seen many and frankly, found myself in that trap where we're just healing for healing's sake. And so, so at the end of the, at the end of life, like a hundred years old on my death, but I'm gonna look back, great. So I healed. And, and part of that is really, really important. But if I had to choose between just healing and then seeking purpose, you know, because what we, we find on the healing journey is both of our stories illustrate is that our heal, our purpose journey will ask us to face elements of ourself that need healing, will ask us to face shadow elements, will ask us to do that work.
And then we need to do that work. But it, it's like purpose and soul is the mastermind intelligent one that can know exactly what's needed and what's not. Cause frankly, look, I've got all kinds of stuff that's still not healed and I'm sure you do too. I'm sure we all do. And so at the end of the, of life, what do I want? Do I want to have just rehearsed my healing over and over and over and over? Or do I want to have actually made that connection to, to purpose and done the healing work necessary? So the way I look at it is I'm a big proponent of healing, but I would suggest that it's the minimum amount of healing necessary in order to fully activate one's purpose.
Luke (01:16:25):
I love the way that you say that.
Tim (01:16:26):
I reserve the right to change my perspective on that. And I ask people to sit with that one. Like really what, because healing is a big thing. It really is, but it's not the whole thing.
Luke (01:16:36):
Oh, and let me, I guess maybe let me say it this way, because I, I love, I love that perspective and if I were to say it as different from the minimum amount of healing, and if I just to use different language to describe it as the balanced amount, right? And, and I say it that way, right? Because there's, what we're trying to do is effectively heal the things that bring us wildly out of balance. And when we begin to shed the major things that need to be shed to help us begin to connect, we find these moments of balance. And it's not to say there's not a little bit to the left and a little bit to the right that still needs work. But there is a, there is a certain sense of balance that comes in that allows us to glimpse, to connect, to, to feel that purpose that is alive, that is unique about who we are. And there's many different things here. But you know, I, I find that it's also that, you know, the, the journey we've been on to get to that place of balance informs so much of the purpose that were meant to bring through and, right, not, not even just the experiences, it's that very often those experiences that we've been through in life have somehow mirrored something within us that we wanted or chose to experience. And I wanna be very careful here because I, I don't wanna get into the trauma conversation and, and some very, very, very difficult circumstances. But there's something that we are connecting to through those experiences that is either informing or working with our soul to transform us into the path that we're meant to be on. And it's in those moments of balance that we start to connect to that and see what we've been through in a very, very different light. And it opens up something beautiful in us. And so I love that perspective of, of even, you know, it, the, the, the language of minimum amount of healing. Because we're not meant to stay perpetually in that cycle.
We're not meant to be perpetually in any cycle. And that's where we don't wanna get lost in the healing. We don't wanna get in the lost of the dreaming of this life. We want to be able to continue. Let's, let's move forward in that dream. Let's be aware that we're dreaming and let's interact with it in a very different way. But as we continue to grow from that place of being and being able to bring that forward and pay that forward and offer that giveaway to others, and we'll heal along the way as we need to continue to, because it's gonna happen. Because believe me, as soon as I'm, I'm finding this, you know, all along my journey every single time, right? Every single time I get a little closer, it's like, oh, I got another little piece. It's like, oh, there's,
Tim (01:19:10):
Yeah. Yep. Oh yeah. Every time. It, it's, it's never ending for me. Yeah, no, I, I I think that's great and I love that, the balanced amount of healing. Another point just, you know, from earlier is I, I wanna point out, notice how much suspension of disbelief to our listeners, right? Notice how much suspension of disbelief there is in both of our stories. Wow. A tree root really could speak to me, oh my God, a bear really could speak to me. And yeah, when we break it down, was it the bear, was it the tree? Was it me? Was it something else? Was it the spirit that moves and all, I mean, yeah, who knows? I don't know how it all works, but I, as we said, we, we recognize that it works. But there is that, I would say, I mean it's a strong language, but almost a requirement of a suspension of disbelief, a willingness to enter into that more than human world of conversation that's, that, that's needed for this journey.
Luke (01:20:03):
At what point, you know, did it become childish as opposed to childlike to be in the imaginal? We now think of things like using your imagination. It sometimes it, it has that, oh, that's a bit childish, unless of course, you've now just invented the next thing that a billion people can buy like an iPhone and then all of a sudden it's smart, right? Then you'rea genius. But it is, there's, we need some of those childlike qualities of being able to be in the imaginal. And when we suspend that disbelief, you, I mean it's, it's amazing what comes alive and you are able to connect to, and again, you can offer any number of explanations that you want as to why it works, how it works or anything. It doesn't really matter. It does work.
Okay. We've covered a lot of ground from belonging to purpose, to liminal space in between and the imaginal space that allows our consciousness to begin communicating in whole new ways and at even greater depths. We're not quite finished, because I also want to share with you a glimpse of what I experienced on my vision quest. So in part two of our conversation, Tim and I both go into the moments from the questing we've both done. Tim also outlines what a vision quest is, how it connects you to being the fullest expression of yourself, where the fullest expression that you can be at this stage of your walk. And it also connects you to an unreal confidence in that path. I hope you'll tune into this next one, to part two and come on the quest with us.
Thank you for joining me for this episode of On This Walk. Before signing off, please subscribe to the show and don't miss a single episode. Also, please rate and review us. This helps me greatly in getting the word out about this show. And remember, this is just the start of our conversation. To keep it going, ask questions, add your own thoughts, join the ongoing conversation by just heading over to onthiswalk.com and click on Community in the upper right hand corner. It's free to join. Until we go on this walk again, I'm Luke Iorio. Be well.

Feliz BorjaNovember 1, 2022

015 - A Walk with Purpose (Part 1)

What is my purpose? What is the meaning of this life?

In This Episode

Notable Quotes

Tim @ 24min 45sec

Luke @ 1hr 17min 58sec

Our Guest

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Full Episode Transcript