019 - The Power of Forgiveness and Individuality
“It does start with forgiveness.”
Reggie Walker learned this many years after sustaining trauma and abuse as a child and struggling with his mental health as an adult. He lives his life by the sentiment that forgiveness is at the center of healing. And beyond forgiving others, we have to forgive ourselves.
As the former NFL athlete walks with me today, we discuss how he found alignment after his football career, what it means to put your peace first, and his journey to living a life that’s true to who he is.
His story is one of determination, healing, thoughtfulness, forgiveness, and embracing his own individuality, so join us today as we discover how Reggie found his way to happiness and peace.
In This Episode
(6:53) Reggie unpacks how he began to really chase his own happiness
(10:10) Why sitting with himself helped Reggie prioritize his mental health
(22:33) How to leave people-pleasing behavior behind and define what you truly want/need
(25:33) Making the shift from self-centered to centered-self
(33:37) Why celebrating our own uniqueness and the uniqueness of others helps us become better individuals
(38:42) How embracing forgiveness and pain allowed Reggie to heal
(43:24) The role of the “protector” in our psyche
(49:01) Why we need to break down generational trauma for ourselves and our children
(57:19) There is beauty and joy to be found in our weird little worlds
(1:00:59) Reggie shares his passion for loving others
Notable Quotes
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“You gotta love yourself enough to let the protector go. Because if you don’t let the protector go, it’s gonna protect you away from happiness and peace and contentment and fulfillment. And it’s been a constant act of letting that go, and forgiving them, forgiving myself for not sticking out, for not saying this, for not doing that… You understand, hurt people do hurt people. And when you start analyzing and understanding people and having conversations with them, there’s a very logical reason why people do things in their own minds. I might not agree, but in their minds that’s what it is. And that’s okay. Because at this moment in time, if I really want that life that I want to have, I have to let it go.”
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“I recognize I live in my own weird little world. I think we all do, right? We all have our own weird little world that we live in – nobody gets to know it! It’s all up in here, it’s in our bodies, it’s in our minds, right? I know that that’s where I am, and the more that I get to play with that, it’s like I have more fun. I don’t take myself as seriously. I enjoy myself more because I’m not trying to like, ‘Wait, how am I going to put myself out there?’ ‘What’s this going to look like?’ I’ve given up those controls and I’ve like owned the fact that I’ve got some weird stuff going on in my head and occasionally I’ve got some weird stuff coming out of my mouth, and that’s okay! It’s more fun. It’s freeing.”
Our Guest
Reggie Walker is a former NFL athlete and the founder of the Personal Mastery School – a program that helps individuals find themselves, their purpose, and create a plan for their life. After sustaining significant trauma in his childhood and then working to process those experiences as an adult, he found a way to support others on their journey to health and happiness. He’s also a mental, physical, and sexual abuse survivor advocate, Tedx speaker, consultant, connector, and problem solver. He wants to equip others with the skills to win the battle against their biggest enemy – themselves – so they can move with confidence and tenacity towards their life mission.
Resources & Links
On This Walk
Reggie Walker
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Luke (00:00:01):
Welcome to On This Walk, a show about the winding journey of life in all its realness. I'm Luke Iorio. Please join me and my brilliant heart centered guests each week, as we look to navigate this journey more consciously and authentically. Uncovering how to tap back into that sense of connection with self, with soul and with something bigger than ourselves. Now let's go on this walk.
Hi everyone, and welcome once again to On This Walk. Thanks for being here. Before we just completely roll in today, like I normally do, I just wanted to thank the great many of you who have left and continued to leave so many ratings, reviews for the show this past month. You know, one of you surprised me with just this really great review saying that this was the first podcast to really, truly, fully engage you. That there's something about this, that we're breaking the mold from what others are doing, appreciating the brilliance and authenticity of what's unfolding on the show, and particularly with the way that my guests show up because they're so extraordinary as, as walking partners on this journey.
And so I wanna thank, I don't have your name, but I wanna thank 973 to 802 for putting that review in and also to those that have been reaching out to me, who've been DMing me to let me know what you're taking away from the shows, raising questions, talking about some of the themes that you're walking around with, some of the things that you're really actually taking with you, some of the insights that you're starting to share with others as well. Thank you so much for that. I love that. That's one of the intentions behind this show is that this is the beginning of that conversation for you and your life as well as the start of our relationship as we go on this crazy journey we call life. For those of you that are new to the show, do me a favor, hit that subscribe button so you don't miss an episode and join in on this conversation.
So with that, let's dive in. As I was thinking about our show for today, this episode and our conversation, our guest that's coming on, I'll admit, there were a lot of different directions that we could take with this. We could talk and probably will talk about our healing journeys, about those moments that helped us to make new choices and create whole new timelines in our lives. We could talk about doing this as men and my guest at one point in his kind of life and in his career, he was at the pinnacle and of kind of contemporary, not so healthy masculine culture as a professional athlete. And so he is got so much that he can share from that perspective as well. We could talk about how we've both become deeply connected to our inner worlds, our faith and being of service. And then I just figured, you know what? Hell, let's just talk about as much as we need to get to today and just let it unfold.
And so that's sort of the tack that we're gonna, we're gonna take. So maybe let me ease in this way, you simply don't know someone until you sit down and listen to their story. You simply can't know from the outside looking in. You see someone who looks like maybe they've got so much going on for them, or maybe you look at another person who's doing things that you would never do and you can't wrap your mind around what's going on for them. And why would they do that? Cause you don't know their background, you don't know their experiences. You don't know what they've been through, let alone what they're still going through, regardless of what it may look like on the outside. And so when you do get to sit down to just listen to them, to just let them tell you about their lives, their travels, their experiences, all of a sudden that perceived wall of separation begins to drop and you begin to truly see them. And man, there are a lot, a whole lot of really beautiful and amazing humans out there. And it's absolutely, honestly, it's part of the joy of me being able to do this show and host these conversations is to get to know each and every one of them just that little bit better. Even people I've known for a while, I get to know in different ways as we get into these conversations.
And so my walking partner today, I teased a bit of what we can get out, get into just a moment ago, but I was, I was reflecting on this conversation and this gentleman, and in some respects, he and I have very little in common. And yet, while the details may be very, very different, we're walking a pretty similar journey. It's a journey of, of healing and balancing and reconnecting to peace. When we first connected, not knowing what to expect, meeting through a mutual friend, actually somebody you're gonna meet on the show at some point soon, we had a near kind of effortless hour long conversation as if we'd known each other for a long time. And I'll admit I could be projecting a little bit here, but I think it's because of his presence. And you're gonna know what I mean by the end of our time today. Because his energy is that it is just really welcoming, it's inviting, it's safe, it's warm, it's accepting, even gentle. And to go along with this kind of deep wisdom and thoughtfulness that is there. And I want you to keep that in mind, all of those qualities. Please keep that in mind as I share his background with you because today my guest is Reggie Walker.
Reggie has experienced a very full life already. He's been a military brat. He's lived in the communities, in communities in the minority, as well as at other times in the majority population. He's had money, he's also been poor and needed assistance for food from the local church. Survived more than eight years of abuse as a young child and adolescent. He made a name for himself in college football at Kansas State and went on to be an NFL linebacker, a sport that he ultimately walked away from to chart a new course. In retirement, his healing journey led into two stays of the treatment facility where he created the Personal Mastery School, a program built to help anyone find answers to how to find themselves, their purpose, and a plan.
Reggie's a mental, physical and sexual abuse survivor advocate. He's become a TEDx speaker, a public speaker, consultant, connector, problem solver for individuals and businesses. His goal is to help those who don't have guidance, learn the essentials to guiding themselves towards their dreams and their goals. To find that peace and confidence within themselves. To learn the techniques to being a master strategist in their own lives, to deal with their issues and challenges. To have the knowledge and a system of effectively solving problems in their own lives while being equipped with the knowledge to plan with an emphasis on fluidity. He wants others to learn all these skills more so they can battle against their biggest enemies, themselves and the unknown so that they can move with more confidence and tenacity towards their life mission. And with that, Reggie, I wanna thank you for coming on this walk with me man.
Reggie (00:06:18):
Man. Thanks Luke. Geez Louise, that was like, wow. Uh, like hell of an introduction there. That was definitely one of the best ones, like 100% that was probably the best one like I've ever gotten. Thank you so much. Yeah, I'm super excited to talk. Like you pumped me up like I'm really good.
Luke (00:06:38):
Love it. I love it. It's one of those things that I was thinking about today. It's like, you know, where should we begin? Because you and I got into a lot of stuff as we already started our conversations offline. And I think maybe if I just start here, cause this is something I, I ask some guests is, you know, from time to time is just tell me like coming onto the show right now, the conversation that you and I, you know, who wanting to be able to have to let this unfold. But I'm just curious, what's like most alive for you right now? Like what is it that feels like it may need expression for you or that you wanna share out with the On This Walk audience right now?
Reggie (00:07:09):
Well, hmm, that's a good question. What's alive for me most right now? I would say really doing what you want and in the face of everything else, I feel as if that's definitely been the biggest lesson that I've had to learn is it's okay to want what you want and it's okay to go get what you want. And sometimes some people are gonna fall by their wayside. Some people aren't gonna like it, some people are gonna say they're, they're 2 cents about it, but you gotta do it anyway. And I've really been put through the rigor on that because I've really had to understand if I don't, when it comes to my own happiness, I'm never gonna fully get it. And I've had to make some decisions and pivot from some things to fully get that. And as bad as some things have been and some things have been kind of bad, but the piece that I get each and every single day, each and every single second it grows and grows and grows, the longer I keep going down this path. And it really does just make things worth it. Because there was a lot of fear when it came down to that this, and I feel as if since I've been done and I decided to retire, I've been on this journey of really finding that peace that I was looking for for so long. I tried to, I tried to find it in people, I tried to find it in football, sports, business, whatever. But I never really just, it took me a while to really just trust myself in that. And I've been really going through a process of trusting myself more and more each second, each of each day. And it's been a beautiful thing and I've been really, really happy lately. Really, really happy.
Luke (00:08:52):
Let me ask you, because I think there's a piece in there that I, you know, I so much resonate with following the thread of, of you know, recognizing, you know, what I want in terms of that journey of peace and what I'm after and what I also know is it took me a really long time to even understand how to answer that question of what do I really want? Right? Because there's, right, so, and I'm curious because I mean, my gosh, you know, the, the journey that you've had all the way to playing in the NFL and then deciding that that was not the path you wanted to continue, I look at it as there's so much that I believed I wanted because that's what, you know, I oriented myself towards, whether it was the stories from my family or from society and culture and what it means to be successful.
And so I thought I knew what I wanted and I ultimately got to a point where I, you know, it wasn't working out, it wasn't feeling the type of peace and happiness that I wanted to have. And it was only when I recognized, actually I don't want any of that stuff out there. I want peace. Like I want peace at the center of my life. And then all of a sudden, like so much could start changing in upheaval. It was not an easy transition, but there's so much that started changing, which I got clear on that. So I'm just kind of, I'm curious for you to speak to like how do we, how do you, let me just ask you, from your experience, how did you begin to actually really discover what you wanted as opposed to what maybe you'd been conditioned to believe that you wanted?
Reggie (00:10:18):
Well really two things. The first thing was I really sat with myself in just myself for literally years when I retired and made the decision to retire, I knew there was a lot of factors going into it. I was, the last two seasons, I was, I knew I was losing it mentally, emotionally with all the trauma from the abuse. It was really coming to the forefront at this time. Yeah, I couldn't hold it in. I was three guys each day. I was either three guys each day or when I would come home. I was either happy go lucky, I love everything about everything. I was either, I hate everything, I don't know what, what the hell I'm doing with my life or I was just silent and it got to the point where I realized what was going on internally, how football wasn't enough, how money and all these accolades and all this other stuff just wasn't enough. And I had to just sit down with myself and I really just sat down until I really got the answers. And I really went through that process of analyzing why I was doing what I was doing, everything. And really just looking at it objectively like a movie and really analyzing these situations because up until that period of time I hadn't done that enough. I did it when it came to sports or business or you know, and some of my relationships kind of. But when it came down to what actually made me happy and what I actually wanted to do, I had no idea, which at that time kinda scared the hell outta me. I was like, how did I live this long and not really fully know that.
And then when I started going through that process and then I also was, I also got help, I did therapy and I did the two treatment center stay, which also helped. But I really had to sit with myself and not run from myself, not run from these issues, not try to drink it away or smoke it away or whatever in a way. Like really sink in all that pain, like all the hurt, all of it. And really try to analyze it objectively. And the keyword of that is really objectively with love and care to yourself, understanding, you know, a lot of things did serve you. They did, it did help you. There was a lot of great things that happened. There's a lot of great things that you could say about yourself. There's a lot of accomplishments you had that, you know, a lot of people just wish they had or are still trying to get or whatever, ever when it comes to that. But the big thing that you had to realize is what's really important to me. And I would just sit on that for hours each day, what's really important to me? And then I would sit there and when something would pop up, why? Always ask myself why, why? And when I got that answer then I started molding my life to that so that every step I was taking was going towards that because I knew that I was making a lot of steps up that point that weren't purposeful, that weren't in the direction that I went to. I had a bunch of relationships with people that I was like, I don't even like them. Why am I talking to this person every day?
Like with the job, the football thing, I knew after my second year what it was and I knew that it wasn't me, which is a weird thing because in a way, like when it comes to football and sports, you are kind of a barbarian in that manner. But to be honest with you, I loved it. Like I, because that's who I was, that's who I was at that time. But I had to really understand that the reason why I like it and the reason why I love it on the outside, I mean really is because I'm fighting so many demons on the inside and this is the only way I know how to verbalize it. Like, so I had to realize how can I verbalize this better? Because really deep down underneath all the barbarian stuff really is like, I love people, I love loving on people, I love to show people, I like, I love to help people. Like that's what matters to me the most. Not knocking do some dude's helmet in or making a bunch of money. I just wanna make sure people are okay and if I can help them on her journey, that's what I want to do. And I needed to mold my life around that. So that's when I started writing the course. That's when I wrote the book. That's when I, you know, I really started meditating. I really started sitting with myself and I started doing work that I've always wanted to do.
Luke (00:14:46):
The, there's a lot there. I think one of the things that just initially jumps out at me is, you know, something you said, which is so true, is we don't necessarily sit to take the time to ask ourselves like, what's important to me and why? And I think it's the, the why that we need to go a lot deeper into, because very often when we start to answer what's important to me, what am I looking for, what is it that, you know, quote unquote makes me happy? A lot of those things that initially come up are more of the surface level answers of what we think, you know, we, we, you know, well I'm happy if I'm doing these things well, unfortunately that's saying that you can only be happy in these circumstances and it's given a lot of power away in that type of circumstance. Right? And so, but when we start asking why or what is about that, that is why it's so important to me. When we really start to look underneath, we start to recognize, well what is it about the qualities of those experiences? Who am I in those moments? Like what is it that I'm tapping into and how is it that I'm showing up that just feels more congruent or more authentic or more at peace, more centered, whatever the, you know, whatever the adjective is that, that you're going for. And so that, that time to be able to understand why are these things important to me? And peel it down until you really get to the answers.
I think you just, you gave a great example even with, with football is that in one respect, I know this is only one lens that we can look at the football story through, but in the one lens that you just shared, once you started to ask, you know, well, why do I enjoy this? What's here? You recognize part of it was because it allowed you to, to not deal with the inner stuff and focus, you know, all of it out in this realm and not deal with the, the, the so-called demons inside. And it gave an outlet for that. And I honestly, I think sports and a lot of things are part of that. They can be very healing and healthy in that way and they can also be very unhealthy in that way. But once you start asking why, you start getting into a very, very different dialogue about what's really going on. Wait a minute, no, I wanna work with people in a completely different way. I wanna be with people in a completely different way. Which I think is, is so important to this.
The last thing I wanted to comment on because it's come up repeatedly on this show, but it's something you know I can speak about in my own journey, is being able to sit with yourself. Man, that's tough. Like that's really like I can't, I've said on the show before, you know, silence and stillness like were two of the most terrifying words that never were in my vocabulary for a long time. And so I guess with the trajectory or the, the path you've been on, what enabled you to finally be able to sit with all that was going on? When you say, you know, you sat with yourself for years, what ultimately were you able to tap into that gave you that tenacity or that persistence or even that patience to go through that process? Because most people are not willing to sit for that long to really figure it out.
Reggie (00:17:40):
Oh, that's a great question. The big thing was looking at myself in a mirror and really seeing myself and all the damage that had been done and really not liking what I was seeing and understanding too with looking at myself that if I want to look at myself with how I would wanna see myself, there's some work that needs to get done. I have to deal with this. I'm, I was 27 at the time, I'm like, well I feel like I'm kind of at a point right now. If I don't deal with this now, I'm never gonna deal with it and I don't know what's gonna happen. Because I knew I had an idea. I was doing a lot of things for the wrong reasons. I had an idea that there was a lot around me that I didn't want, I knew with the first thing of letting football go to go find that. It gave me the confidence and it gave me kind of that sharing initially to just keep going on that path. Because just like you said, sitting with yourself in silence is brutal. Like that's the best way of, it's, it's an understatement. It's one of the most brutal things you can do. And I sat in it for years and I'm telling you, it's tough that when you really start seeing what, why you're doing what you're doing and why you did certain things, oh it hurts a lot. Things that you messed out on, opportunities that you missed on, but that's not even just it.
All this time you lived and you weren't really entirely yourself for whatever reason. Gotta please mom and dad. I gotta please this person. I gotta please this person. Just like with the football, I loved that I made other people happy. I loved that part of it. And I love that part so much. I didn't really look at the fact that I didn't love it at all. Like especially after my second year, I, and I played five more years after that. And I did not love it because of me, at all. I hate it. Every bit of it, every day. Like there were certain things that I was like, okay, I get a little bit of enjoyment out of it. But again, it goes back to not being able to verbalize internally what was going on and loving that part of it, but that sitting through yourself process, oh it's awful. But then you really have to start asking yourself, what do I like? What do I want? Why do I want it? Me, me, me, me. And it's not, for a little period of time, I used to think of it as selfish to want what I wanted to do, what I wanted.
I thought it was selfish because you gotta do this and you gotta please this and, when you're also an overachiever, everyone looks at you like, dude, you gotta keep overachieving. Like this is who you are. Like this is why I'm around you. Cause you're always doing all A, B, C, D and all this other stuff. But the thing is when you really realize like why you're doing all this overachieving, why you're doing all this crap, you really realize like it's kind of crap towards you and you don't care. You really don't care. It does because you're not doing anything that you actually want. You're doing everything for everyone else and everything else. And these ideas of I have to do this, I should be doing this. This is what someone like me is supposed to be doing. It's supposed to be acting, but you have to really look at what you want and really be okay with whatever the hell that is.
And because of that, that's why I've gone through a string of just like letting go, letting go of all these past relationships, this whole idea of myself that I gotta conquer the world and do this and I gotta do all these things. Like no, I'm gonna do what I want and I'm gonna surround myself with the people that are gonna help bring that outta me. Because before I die, I know one thing. Like I'm not gonna die a coward. And when I mean dying a coward, I don't wanna die being too scared to bring out what's in. I feel like that's the point. You gotta bring this out. Well what's in here, you gotta bring that out. And by you bringing that out, you help other people bring that out. And if you're not doing that work, if you're not striving for that, I feel and understand at this point I'm not really caring. I'm not really showing the love that I wanna give to people. I'm not really acting in why I wanna be here in the first place. So it's an everyday constant, every second act of me. But that's sitting with yourself. Well it's awful. And yeah, I tell people all the time, like, dude, you got serious with yourself. But you see the cringes and you know, it's like, you know, people don't wanna go to therapy or they don't want deal do the hard thing. It's hard, it's probably the hardest thing you'll ever do.
Luke (00:22:34):
As part of sitting with myself, one of the things Reggie brought up that I've had to wrestle with and I know affects a lot of other people is this draw to pleasing others. For me, this was multi-layered. I wanted to be light, I wanted to be seen as reliable, someone that others could count on. I wanted to make other people happy. I also didn't wanna be rejected or let anyone down or have others see me as anything less than helpful. I would please others in an attempt to control their opinion of me. And this would lead to anything from stress and overwhelm, from taking too much on to downright frustration and even resentment. When I was the one putting myself in this position in the first place, I had to step back and consider what was my real need beneath this? What was the real need beneath this people pleasing, everything we do is ultimately about meeting our needs.
We may dress it up in values and beliefs and even righteousness, but at the end of the day we're just trying to get our needs met. So what need are you fulfilling by people pleasing? For me, again, this was multi-layered. I have a need for connection, a need to feel helpful, a need to feel worthy to be seen, a need for relationship. However, my strategy of pleasing others could only fulfill those needs at best half-heartedly and most typically in ways that were imbalanced and not at the deeper, most authentic and honest level. At the end of the day, I had to admit relationships based on people pleasing were born in imbalance and could never be truly fulfilling. So then what? Just make my choices and let the chips fall where they may relationships be damned? No, of course not. I needed to do the hard work of getting to know what was a true, congruent yes and what was a true, congruent no for me.
What was in resonance and what was in dissonance? I had to be more mindful and deliberate about the commitments I was making and as best I could to stay in alignment with what I truly need, value and love, and is also congruent with who I wish to be in this world for me and who I wish to be in this world is me. Without attachments and fears, without overcommitting, without people pleasing, imbalanced ego and so on. To be me as I naturally am, as I'm designed to be consciously. And then I could choose what it was I was to do in this world from that place of being. So sit with that question. If people pleasing is a tendency you have or insert whatever tendency you do have in its place, what need are you fulfilling by people pleasing? And then you can consider what are healthier, more balanced ways of fulfilling this need?
Yeah, what you described in terms of what's within that you wanna bring without, and I've mentioned, people have heard it, you know, mentioned this on the show, is that it was one of those other instrumental points is when I recognized or read the article way back when of The Top Regrets of the Dying and the number one regret being that I wished I'd had the courage to be true to myself as opposed to the expectations of others. And it's so much of, you know, I just heard like the way you described all these different kind of responsibilities and obligations and the shoulds, which to me are just all of these different expectations that we feel either others are placed on us or we've just simply placed on ourselves and we start playing these roles because it's what we feel like we're supposed to do for the people that we love and the people around us or maybe what they're constantly asking of us, I don't know. And we ultimately get pulled off track from, from what's really existing at the core of who we are. You know, you describe that when we make this pivot, it feels selfish. And I think what I wanna frame for everybody is that it may feel that way for a period of time, but what you're really trying to do is it's the difference between being self-centered and centered self. And you can't get to centered self if you never place yourself at the center. Just, I mean it's straight up, right?
Reggie (00:26:51):
Straight up. Like I couldn't set it there myself. Exactly. Exactly. To the C. And it's, you have to understand how to do that first. You have to go through that process and because you're creating healthy boundaries and you're towards, I want to go this way, I don't wanna go that way. I don't wanna go that way. And I need to set up boundaries for that with yourself at the center. And you have to put yourself at the center like you're in this body, it's your life that you're living ultimately. I'm not living your life. You're not living my life. If I want the things in my life that I want, then I need to put myself at the center. Not you, not me, I mean not anybody else. I have to put myself first.
And then by the act of doing that, you realize how much more you can give to other people. Which is so weird. It's a weird thing that when you start putting yourself first and you start putting your things and you're wanting your needs and you start putting up these boundaries, you can give way more to people in a way in which you've always wanted to give to people. Not a way that your mom or your dad or coach or a friend said that you usually give it to people. A way in which you actually want to give to people that actually fills your cup up. And it's really beautiful and it's really fulfilling and it's something that would just talking and however, which way I, that's the gift that I just wanna give to everyone else. Cause once you sit in it and you really feel that, you're like, there's no place I'd rather be, like this is the spot I need to be.
Luke (00:28:29):
You know, it's something you mentioned before, but it ties directly to what you're saying right now is that you needed to make some changes in terms of some of the relationships that were around you and then ultimately surround yourself with those individuals that were reinforcing the part of you that was trying to come out. And so when, when you become more centered in self and you recognize this is what it is that I want to give to others, and you've begun to, you know, begun surrounding yourself with other people who can meet you in that place and say, yeah, more of that, more of that. Bring that out. You've got this beautiful, virtuous cycle that propels you forward and why it's, you know, I, I'm kind of calling it out because there are times with some of the relationships in our lives, I'm not telling everybody to go walk away from all your relationships, just to be clear here. But there are times where a lot of the people who have known us for years, they don't want us to change like that because they've already got their way of, of interacting with us and they already know who they want us to be. And we've probably even fed into that for a long time. And that could be a really, really tough tether that just kind of keeps pulling on you to stay right where you are. So it takes a tremendous amount of courage to, you know, find ways of either letting those relationships go or change them in a way that creates space for those relationships that are gonna nurture you and support you in the way in which you are able to move forward.
Reggie (00:29:49):
Right. Because your environment is very important. It's, it's very important. And when it comes to creating that environment for, you know, you could call it success for yourself or for healing or just peace, a better way of putting it is peace for yourself. You have to kinda make those hard decisions to put your peace first. Cause I'm trying to put my peace first so I can give peace to everybody else. And if I can't, if I don't have peace within me, I can't give it to anybody else. But I have people within me. I can't really love anybody like that. Like how I would want. So it has to come first. And yeah, it's, I can promise you doing, breaking that tether is tough. It's very tough. And you're gonna breaking these relationships down and walking away from certain things. Oh yeah. It's, it's a lonely road too. It's a lonely, it's not this movie type thing where you know, you're gonna break all these relationships and stuff and then it's like, oh, I'm free and everything's good now.
Like, no you then you're kind of like at square one, like you're at square one. Okay. So if you gotta rebuild that yourself and it's a process, but it's a process that if you go down, go down through it, I can promise you that it's, you'll be so glad you you did it. It's like now I'm eight years out, I think eight years out and I, I have cut off family members, I have cut off friends, people that I did all types of stuff with. I had my back and all these types of situations, you know, all different types of people and yeah, it hurt doing that. It hurt doing that of course. But you understood that if I don't do this not getting what I want, I'm never gonna get it. It has to happen. And yeah, it has been painful. And yeah, sometimes it can be lonely, but when you break the tether, don't be surprised at who else comes into your life now. And I'm like, wow. Like the support system around me now is incredible. Like, I can pick up the phone and talk to people and I'll, and it's, you're supporting my growth. I don't have to prove anything to you. If I'm gonna, if I sit here and decide that I wanna do whatever, you're gonna support me in that because you just support me for me. You don't support me for what I'm giving you or it's not conditional. It's because of me. And there is people out there that, that will love you for you completely. It's not, and there's that fear.
That's why I, you know, I, I put, I definitely could, could've phrased it differently, but you know, my big thing is like, I don't wanna die a coward because when I was really sitting with myself when I was, and the thing that was keeping me from these issues, I really understood it was fear and it was fear that I never felt in anything else ever. Like it was deep rooted fear of not being accepted, of being alone or really not being accepted of being alone. And I knew, I was like, I've done this and this and this. I inclined to all these mountains and done all this stuff. Like you can't, like you can't do that now, bro. Like the whole entire dialogue is like, bro, you can't do that right now. In order to be brave you have to be scared. And you have to be scared. That's the first thing about it. You cannot be brave if you're not scared first. It does not work. You just, so I would tell that stuff to myself and I now have better positive dialogue, especially compared to back then. But that was the thing that really got me out of it. It was just like, I'm not gonna die outward. Like I'm gonna face this fear head on and whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen. Like, and I have to do this for me for once. Yeah. I'm glad I did.
Luke (00:33:33):
You just framed, so there's two different things I'm gonna go into, but the first is what you just framed so well of this, this fear of, you know, wanting to, to have that acceptance and at the same time the fear of being alone and I, right. It's this, this real conundrum times that we feel like we're in because it's, it's part of the ways that our, our mind convinces of the story of like, you can have one but not both. Right? And yet we really just, we wanna be accepted for who we are and we don't wanna risk not being part of the community, part of the, the, the tribe that we feel that we're connected to in some way. And so we feel these pressures to gain social acceptance, but we then usually compromise who we are because we feel like if we lean in too far to who we are, then we are risking belonging and we're risking that sense of community.
The irony. And I think it's why there's so many people, I think it's, you know, part of the very interesting commonality that you, you know, you and I had in our first conversation jumping on here was there are so many people that are beginning to come to this reality or this understanding. I wanna be me and to be accepted as me and get to relate with other people as me. And there's more and more people that are doing that. And ironically, the more that we gain comfort in the uniqueness of who we are, the more we can celebrate others for their uniqueness in who they are. And that actually creates community as opposed to us needing to all be the same. We can celebrate the uniqueness that is there and say, you know what? I need to know you because you're gonna go through life in a way that I'm never gonna go through life. So the only way for me to learn that view, the only way to learn that experience is for me to know you. And so please be unique. Right. Please be different. It helps me, right?
Reggie (00:35:16):
Yes. And that's, that's what's so amazing about it too. You're exactly right. You're exactly right. Because just even in my own example, some of the people that are around me, I'm like, I would never do what you're doing. I don't get it. There's no way I could do like that. I don't have like an interest in that. But you realize like, man, I'm learning so much all the time from people and this, like the different ways of going about life and viewing life and doing things like in life and it makes you better. It makes you so much better at a pace that you didn't have before. Like you're constantly getting better and it is like, man, you're going down, like you're going down a hill. I mean you're going down a hill, but like it's right into a great valley of just like, you know, goodness and grace and love and hope and peace and really, that and it's, it's like you're getting accelerated there by being around different people who are not like you. But they, we share that same commonality. Like I'm myself, like whatever the hell that is, I'm myself always. And you're around people who are always themselves and unapologetically themselves and you're like, man, this is who I wanna be around constantly. And it really brings out so much more new that you never even thought possible. Just having a conversation and hearing someone just talk about, you know, what really brings them, brings them that joy in life. What really fulfills them, what really gives them that, that their peace. You're like, man, that doesn't give me my peace. But, hmm. I'll take a little piece of that though and apply that to me. Cause I love that. I love that part. And you start realizing that, man, we are a collective and you can take these little bits of people and bring them into yourself and that's okay. Cause we are products of our environments anyway. And you are a mixture of all the people around you and it's great to go about things that way. And yeah, going back to just being accepted and alone, when you go through that part, when you go through that process 100% you'll not be accepted by a bunch of people. It will, you want dude, like that's gonna happen. But when you sit while you realize, you know, this is actually okay. Like it's okay. It's not as scary as you thought it was gonna be. It's the fear that really kind of put over, emphasizes what it actually is. But it, you know, but the fear of the unknown.
Luke (00:37:46):
It's right to go through that and to enter into that unknown space and realize I'm still here, there's still air in my lungs, my feet are still on the ground. I didn't die. I'm okay, I'm still here. Right? Oh. But at the time that you're going through it, it feels like you're just, you're dying because a part of, in, in a sense, and I guess that's maybe what I wanna frame for everybody, in a sense there's a part of you that is dying and that's part of, that's part of what's right, that's part of what's falling away. That's part of what you're trying to release. And it's okay to grieve that, like include that in your process. It's important to, but to know that that's, that's a period of time. It's a process of releasing, of dying, of grieving that allows you to create all of this other space for what you're moving into.
I love the, the conversation or the, the what you raised in terms of putting your peace first. And I'm curious about, you know, some of that, that aspect of your healing journey of what were some of the things that allowed you to step into more and more of your peace. So just as an example, like for me now I can tell you I couldn't have told you this then, but now I can tell you looking back, that I needed to find things like I needed to find a, a sense of inner balance. Meaning what were those things that were imbalanced in the way I would make commitments or the way I'd relate to other people. So I needed to get connected to balance. Honestly, I needed to get connected to things like humility and to faith. And one that I didn't talk to you about, but I was curious where this plays in your, your journey as well was forgiveness and how that was like self-forgiveness as well as forgiveness of others played a big role for me too. And so I'm just kinda like curious, what were some of those types of elements for you on your healing journey that allowed you to move towards, towards that piece at the center of, of what you wanted?
Reggie (00:39:34):
Hmm. Definitely sitting in my bank. Sitting in it. Sitting in it for once. Cause up in, up until that period of time, especially before I went to the treatment center for the first time, I was running from everything like the plague, I was running from myself, everything. I was running and I had to just sit there. It was like I was running from the boogieman the whole time. And then I had to sit down and turn around and let him catch me and just sit there and have a conversation with him for years to understand why this everything had happened. And really when you talked about forgiveness, because when you go through a lot of things that you go through with the mental abuse, physical abuse, the sexual abuse, you do have a lot of anger and justifiably so at some of these people that caused this to you like that did this to you.
But you also have a lot of shame and guilt and you regret because some of the things that, oh, I should have stood up for myself more. I should have said something back or I should have fought back or I should have did this. Or should shoulda, shoulda, shoulda, shoulda, shoulda. And you have to bring forgiveness in that like I talk to someone and they say, they're telling me, um, I've done a lot of work with, Reggie you have two people, and this is a while ago. You have you and then you have this protector and you have to understand that this protector served a role. Like you were a kid, like you were going through deep stuff at such a young age. This person was there to protect you. This protector did things at the better for the betterment of you because you were literally surviving.
You were just surviving. Like love that person, you know, also love yourself too. And then understand, you gotta love yourself enough to let the protector go because if you don't let the protector go, they'll protect you away from happiness and peace and contentment and fulfillment. And it's been a constant act of letting that go because, and forgiving, forgiving them, forgiving myself for not sticking up, for not saying this, for not doing that there's this for whatever. And forgiving everyone else too for everything that they've done to me too. Because you understand, you know, hurt people do hurt people. You, and when you start analyzing and understanding people to have a conversation with them, there is a very big logical why people do things in their own minds. You know, and that's okay. I might not agree, but in their minds, that's what it's, that's okay. It's okay.
Because at this moment in time, if I really want that life that I wanna have, I have to let it go because pebbles become boulders and then boulders become mountains. And if you're gonna, you can't carry those mountains all the way to, it's not, it's not how this works. You gotta be free of all that. You gotta free yourself. And forgiveness is a huge key in that. Forgiveness, sitting in yourself, analyzing your own pain, accepting yourself for whatever hell you are. That was a big one too. Accepting myself, I'm enough, I'm worthy. Like I'm okay. Some people aren't gonna like it, some people aren't gonna be that way. But do I view myself that way? That's most important. And really clawing my way, some ways and going through times to just get to that point. Like it, it's absolutely necessary.
Luke (00:43:06):
A journey of, of learning to love yourself and accept yourself is such an important and powerful part of what this journey is because when you connect to that, you stop looking outside of yourself for that type of validation. You are your own validation. The piece I just wanted to add around, I'm so glad that you brought up the perspective of the protector because there, you know, for every single one of us, if we're human, you've got a protector. Because at some point when you were young, whatever the circumstances were, you felt unsafe. It doesn't matter the severity of those circumstances, at some point everybody goes through this and so that protector rises up to take care of us in what's interesting, and I just wanted to, you know, to share this perspective with everybody for a moment, but I've actually done this work with clients where I've had them dialogue with their protector and at some point have them ask their protector, how old do you think I am?
And very often they get this quick answer. The protector's like, oh, you're eight years old. I mean, it literally, it's like there's, there's a part of their consciousness doesn't recognize that was 30 years ago, 40 years ago, 50 years ago in some instances, because that's part of us, it's part of our, our psyche that developed to take care of us at that time. And it did a beautiful job in the best way that it knew how at that time. And it literally didn't continue to evolve because that, that's not its role. And so for us to get into that space a bit, and I love, you know, you even saying like, it can protect you from happiness, it can protect you from peace because that's so true. But, so we need a different dialogue with that and with, with all of these different parts that are different little aspects of who we are.
Whether you wanna call them parts of our personality, parts of our psyche, parts of our consciousness, whatever. They're parts of who we are and we wanna bring them back into the fold. We wanna bring them back into wholeness so that they can be part of the whole of what we are and not, you know, the, the squeaky wheel that keeps, you know, directing everything at this time. One other image, and I think this was one of the pieces that was crucial for me then kind of like reconnecting to accepting myself was, I don't know why I got this image when you were describing everything but connected to forgiveness is almost like this sense that when we, when we don't approach forgiveness as release and recognize that forgiveness has so much to do with us releasing what we've been carrying, it's not condoning, it's not saying I'm okay with what happened or what you did to me.
It's not those things. It's this form of release and it's very important because very often, you know, even the little things that we may get hung up on, we're walking around with it for weeks and months and years and the other person doesn't even know that it was ever a thing in the first place. Right. For these minor things, we carry this energy with us. But if we can find our ways of working to release and we can find our ways with humility to be able to, to simply understand there are experiences that other people, you know, hurt people hurt people. Exactly as you said before, Father Richard Ross said that, right. Hurt people hurt people. And to just have the humility to forgive that I don't know how they were hurt. And I'm not saying the excuse is anything, but I am saying I don't know how they were hurt. And I know that hurt people hurt people. And so when you combine all these things, all of a sudden that starts to melt away. And for me, when all of this starts to melt away and I start to place these things down, it's like I can breathe again. And it's like, oh well who's this guy? Right? Who's left, once I've placed all this other stuff, who's this guy? Right?
Reggie (00:46:41):
Right. See I love how you put that. I absolutely love how you put that because forgiveness is an act of release and you're releasing so you can accept, accept yourself, accept what happened. Accept everything. Cause you have to accept it all. You have to accept it all, the good and the bad. So you can accept yourself, so you can love yourself. So you can love yourself, so you can love everybody else. Like, and it's like, I love how you put that because that's why I had to get to, I gotta forgive. I gotta forgive so I can accept. I gotta accept so I can love myself, I gotta love myself so I can love everybody else how I wanna love them. And it does start with forgiveness and really understanding the other side. Cause man, like when I was in a treatment center, for instance, you're in there with meth addicts, heroin addicts, people with traumatic brain injuries, alcoholics, people who before I went in there, society tells you these people are these, they're this, yeah, they're this.
And then you listen to them and you're going through six, seven hours of therapy a day doing groups with everybody. And you are really getting to know each other at a really deep level. And you're really getting to see other people's pain and why they did what they did. And the biggest thing that you see from this is, you're no different from me. You're no different from me, but not just me. You're no different from anybody else. You just chose this and then things, that's how you coped with it. That's how you coped with it. And I understand it. Like I understand it and you understand that a lot of ways in which they coped. You coped. I played football, that's how I coped. You know, thank goodness for it because I could have definitely done some other things, but that's how I coped. And we're all just trying to cope with these deep rooted issues that are very hard to deal with and we need help with dealing with them. And you're not really taught how to do that as a kid. You know, you're not mostly, cause most of our parents are dealing with issues they don't know how to deal with because they haven't been taught how to deal with issues from their parents who had issues that didn't, you know. And it's a continuous cycle, but if you wanna break that cycle, you gotta sit with your stuff so you can show other people how to sit with their stuff so it stops and it won't stop until that happens.
Luke (00:49:01):
I'm really glad that you brought up this kind of like ancestral, you know, generational, let me say it that way, this generational trauma that can be passed along. Part of the way at some point we've gotta sit with it because that's what gives us the potential to break some of these cycles. And I'm really curious about this for you because for me, and I've, I've done this with clients, man, God, I can feel the, uh, I can feel the emotion of this, is that for me, I recognized that some of the patterns that I was witnessing in myself come hell or high water, I did not wanna pass this on to my children. And it was just like, I gotta go through this. I've gotta go through whatever I gotta go through because I'm not, I don't want them to, to experience this. I don't want them to go through any of this.
And even some of the things they'd seen in me, I intentionally allowed them to see like what I was going through and you know, the, the fact that was trying so hard to make changes because I was stressed and I was frustrated and I was burnt out and I was, you know, taking it out on, on on us at home, so to speak, because I didn't have another outlet, I didn't feel safe anywhere else to, to kind of blow off that type of steam. And it's, it's usually one's closest to us that get to see all of that. And it's like, no. Now I want them to see the fact that I'm gonna go through a change process and I want them to see that you can change, you can evolve, but the, the point of it's just bringing up is just like the motivation of for us. Cause I know you're a father and you know that motivation of being able to, to witness our children and then saying, you, you know what? Mm-hmm. Nope, this is gonna stop with me because I do not want this being passed on. I don't want any of my issues becoming their issues. And so I'm just curious for, for your perspective as to how maybe that even that role of, of fatherhood and that influence also has been a really kind of anchoring point for your own healing.
Reggie (00:50:46):
I'm really glad you asked this. Oh man. I hope I don't get emotional either. Oh my gosh. As I did the exact same thing you did because one of the big things that I, I have always wanted to teach my kids from day one is I'm not Superman, I am human. Like I am not some superhero. I want you to understand that I'm a person who has faults. I do good things. I do some bad things. I make mistakes though, but I'll own up to them and I'll work on it and I'll, I'll keep fighting too, for you and to be better so I could be better for you. But I'm human at the end of the day. It was very imperative for me to do that. And when I was going through all of these issues sitting with myself, man, I remember some days like I would just be so like whatever.
Just really sitting in it. And I remember one of my daughters coming up to me and was just like, are you crying? And I was like, you know, I was just like, you know, I'm happy. She was just like, you can cry when you're happy? And I was like, yeah. I was like, I'm happy I'm still here. Like I'm happy that you could see me be happy cause I feel like you've never really got to see me be fully happy. Before I went to the treatment center, the first time, I remember having to explain that to my oldest daughter. She's like, where are you? I was just like, I'm gonna go somewhere, I'm gonna be gone for 30 days, but you know, you're probably not going, I'm not gonna be able to talk to you as much, but just understand it's gonna be good, like why, what's going on?
And like, I got a cup and I was just like, like this is me. I filled the water up that like glasses and I was like, this is me. I'm pour into this and this and this and this and this. And then like, where's the cup now? I was like, there's no water in the cup. And I was like, like I gotta go refill my cup so I can love you guys because I don't have anything left in me and I don't know how to do it. And she was like, okay dad, well I'll be here for you. And I was like, okay. She like gave me a hug and then I left, and I was like, it was funny because I didn't even know how I was explain it to her. And I literally like just, like I didn't even, it just came outta me.
And I remember on the drive to the airport, just kinda thinking like, that is literally where I'm at. Like I have nothing because I have given it to everybody else and I really did not know how to get it. And it's like with my healing journey and everything, you know, there's like, I talked to them, I tell them like, if I'm hurting, I'm hurting. Like I'm, I'm hurting like right now. Like that got me. Or if I'm happy I show them that too. Or if I'm sad about something, I'll show that too. If something gets me, like I show my emotions too, because I want them to see that, that it's okay to show your emotions, to have emotions, to not just block everything off. Like I've seen Moana 10 times and I've cried all 10 times in Moana. Any Disney movie, if you put a Disney, if you put anything in front of me, if it's sad, I'm gonna cry.
It's gonna happen. Like it will happen. And I don't care if my kids see me cry, I don't care man. I'll be holding the pill and everything. I was like, dude, that got me. And especially when you've been bottling emotions for so long, it does just come outta me sometimes, it does. And I'm okay with that, because I want my kids to see that so they understand it's okay. And then when they have kids, their kids can see that it's okay and so on and so forth. It goes back to like breaking that cycle and understanding like, you have a big job in this if you want your kids to, because kids, they, they don't go off what you say. They go off what you do. You know, they model you and if you really want break that cycle, then you have to be a great model for them. And they gotta see the good, the ugly, like that's what it's, you know, and understand at the end of the day like where your intentions are or, or the thing that's most important. Like where is this coming from? Why is it coming from there? Who is this person really deep down in the midst of all this stuff, the good and the bad that I am, you know? Cause I'm human.
Luke (00:55:30):
Absolutely. I wanna thank you for sharing that. Number one is just sharing that, that moment, that experience, that story with that, with your daughter in that way. I just, I greatly appreciate it. And the fact that you describe it as also this other piece of being able to show emotion. What I wanna take it back to, you know, what we were talking about a little while ago of accepting ourselves, this accepting ourselves is not accepting like this written out image of this is who I am and this is what my interests are and this is what I like to portray the Lord. It's like it ain't that, accepting ourselves is when we're getting emotional in the moment. We're feeling the, the, the fact that something, you know, really, really touched us or that we're really resisting something. It's, it's all of that. And being able to accept yourself, not as some, you know, written down identity, but accepting yourself of who you are in this moment and in this moment and in this moment and in this moment as we go and being able to accept, we have the whole range of experiences.
We don't always show up in the ways that we, we wish we would've shown up. But it's accepting that because it's being able to say, this is what is, this is what it is. Now, do I wanna continue that way? Different, right? Now we can make some changes, but if we won't look at what is, then we never can actually make a real change. Because we're not making a change from what was actually occurring or who we actually are. We're just making it off of, no, I'm not gonna look at that. I'm gonna change, but I'm not gonna look at what was going on. It doesn't work that way. We gotta face those things. So just, I I wanted to kind of bring that part out of what you've been saying of accepting ourselves and because it's, it's all of this and man, the, what that does open up in the way of, you know, I describe it this way. Yeah. I'm curious just how, what this, this brings up for you. I've joked for years, like I recognize I live in my own weird little world and I think we all do, right? We all have our own weird little world that we live in. Nobody gets to know it. Right? It's all up, up in here and it's in our bodies and our minds. But it's like I know that that's, that's where I am. And the more that I get to play with that, it's like I have more fun. I don't take myself as seriously, I enjoy myself more because I'm not trying to like, wait, how I'm gonna put myself out there? What's this gonna look like? How's this gonna, you know, I've given up those controls and I've like owned the fact that no, I, I got some weird stuff going on in my head and it's okay. Occasionally I've got some weird stuff coming outta my mouth too. And that's okay. It's more fun.
Reggie (00:58:08):
It's freeing though, right?
Luke (00:58:09):
It's freeing. Absolutely.
Reggie (00:58:09):
It's so freeing. It's so freeing. Knowing, man, I'm gonna go into this, I'm gonna go into this kids event. I mean this event where all these parents are gonna be there. Yeah, that was definitely weird, what I just said. Like that was weird. But I don't feel any type of way about it. Like whatever. Like that's who I am. Like that your, that's what it is. Plus when you, once, when you do that, you are able to connect on people on a, on a way different level than before. Because you're not going through the whole mental gymnastics of, I should say this for this person, I should say this with that person. Or like, you're just saying whatever. Not just outwardly just like, you know, word dumping. But more is just, you're curious about things. You're, we are naturally curious about stuff and your questions get better. Your answers get better. You're, you're able to listen more because you are actually genuinely interested. Because you do understand that each individual is different and unique in their own way. So when you're talking to people, you start getting to the point where you're like, what's their thing? Like what's their thing? Like, I really wanna know what their thing is. And you get deeply interested in it because when you find someone else's thing and you see how it lights them up and how they come alive, you could just, you just, it's like, it's like you see like a sun, like a light come out. It's like you see them like turn alive to a whole different level you never thought. And it, and that is beautiful. It, it really is beautiful. Cause we all have that. We all have it. We all have it. But especially once you start doing it yourself, it's easier to bring it outta other people. Cause they, they will, they'll let their guard down. I could cut the shit. Like I could cut it. I don't need to do it. Not with this person. I could just be myself and they're gonna accept me forever. Cause at the end of the day, we're all, we all wanna be accepted. And if you could show that to somebody else, like watch what you get back. Like man.
Luke (01:00:11):
I'm amazed at it what it's done. The more that I've leaned into it, the more that I've kind of owned that within myself and being able to just kind of share from, from the center out of who I am. It always just, I love the response and what it begins to open up in other people. And you know, I know the people that have done that for me through the years, right? Where I just, I could feel their authenticity. I could feel their genuineness, I could feel their vulnerability. And it just was so inviting and it gave me so much permission to step into that space myself. And now being able to get to witness that in others as I still go through the process, but to witness that in others and it's just, it's this wonderful, beautiful, that's a contagion we wanna spread, right? That's what we want spreading around out there. And so I love you tie to that. I'm gonna ask you then just because the way you, you framed it just before we wrap up. You said getting to know what other people's thing is. I wanna know what's your thing right now?
Reggie (01:01:06):
Loving people and like showing that no matter what, no matter what they give back to me no matter, no matter what, because I know that's what I want to do. Like, I want shower people in love. Like I want them to feel loved that they're accepted, that they're hurt, that they're seeing, that they're hurt, that you know, there's somebody there for, I want people to know that so badly and I know that it also comes from me because that's what I wanted so badly. But at this point I feel like it's at a healthier point of I just love the act of loving people. I love it. I love, I love that. And just helping people, especially when you really realize there's so many people out there who are really looking for love and really want to be accepted. Like most people around me, they're just like, dude, because you know, I'm, you know, 6'2", 250 pounds, like I have dreads and tattoos like, you know, can scare some small children. But the thing is, like I know I like, I'm a teddy bear. Like I love, I love being a teddy bear. I would rather just be a teddy bear. I'm okay with that. I also know that I'm also a couple other things too. But that's the thing that I'm like, that's what I wanna give to people. That's what I wanna show to people. And I, and I work on how can I do that better each day? So I've said, that's where I'm at right now.
Luke (01:02:32):
Love it. Love it. Reggie, I wanna thank you for coming on this walk with us, coming on this walk with all the audience and, and, and everybody that follows into this show and just sharing the, the passion, the wisdom, the story, the experience, everything that you've had to offer to us. And I don't know, I'm gonna tell everybody else, I have a feeling you're gonna see Reggie again. Just a guess. Just a guess on my part, but we'll see.
Reggie (01:02:56):
Awesome.
Luke (01:02:58):
I want to thank you so much for being on this walk, Reggie.
Reggie (01:03:01):
Oh, thank you so much, Luke. This was great. Phenomenal.
Luke (01:03:05):
Thank you for joining me for this episode of On This Walk. Before signing off, please subscribe to the show and don't miss a single episode. Also, please rate and review us. This helps me greatly in getting the word out about this show. And remember, this is just the start of our conversation. To keep it going, ask questions, add your own thoughts, join the ongoing conversation by just heading over to onthiswalk.com and click on Community in the upper right hand corner. It's free to join. Until we go on this walk again, I'm Luke Iorio. Be well.